New coronavirus in/from China

[kenneal - lagger]

Isn't it true that with an increasing life expectancy and increasing population the % dying each year must fall ? Unless there is an external factor that distorts the figures by adding, say, 103,000 extra deaths.

You forgot the influx of young immigrants over the last 20 or 30 years; 200,000 to 300,000 per year is not a small number to add.

[kenneal - lagger]

This raises some interesting points, leaving aside the presence of those who illegally accessed the ward, should the doctors have let the patient leave with his friends as he wanted. Do they have the duty / right to keep him there on oxygen to keep him alive? If they let him leave are they risking more people being exposed to infection? https://metro.co.uk/2021/01/26/covid-de ... -13965466/

They should have let the patient go if he signed a discharge form stating that he had been warned he would die of he left. It would have saved us the cost of his treatment, left a bed open for someone who wanted to be treated and been a graphic example to those deniers that covid does exist. The deniers could also have been charged with manslaughter or assisting someone in their death.

Overall it would have been at least one less nutter in a world with too many at the moment.

[careful_eugene]

This raises some interesting points, leaving aside the presence of those who illegally accessed the ward, should the doctors have let the patient leave with his friends as he wanted. Do they have the duty / right to keep him there on oxygen to keep him alive? If they let him leave are they risking more people being exposed to infection? https://metro.co.uk/2021/01/26/covid-de ... -13965466/

They should have let the patient go if he signed a discharge form stating that he had been warned he would die of he left. It would have saved us the cost of his treatment, left a bed open for someone who wanted to be treated and been a graphic example to those deniers that covid does exist. The deniers could also have been charged with manslaughter or assisting someone in their death.

Overall it would have been at least one less nutter in a world with too many at the moment.

90% Agreed but isn't there a point at which the guy isn't capable of making an informed decision due to the drugs etc. he is on? I admire the doctor for remaining cool whilst dealing with the utter tool who was challenging him.

[PS_RalphW]

Every mentally competent adult has the right to refuse medical treatment even if it kills them. As covid is not (as far as I am aware) a notifiable disease, the doctors could not detain him to prevent its further spread.

Edit

My mistake, it is notifiable.

Edit

As far as I know, patients can only be detained under mental health laws. The European Court on human rights has in principal ruled that patients can detained if they pose a danger to others, including through disease, but I cannot find any examples of this in the UK.

In any case, it would need lots of legal hoops to be jumped, by which time the patient would be recovered or dead

[Catweazle]

Isn't it true that with an increasing life expectancy and increasing population the % dying each year must fall ? Unless there is an external factor that distorts the figures by adding, say, 103,000 extra deaths.

You forgot the influx of young immigrants over the last 20 or 30 years; 200,000 to 300,000 per year is not a small number to add.

I didn't forget, neither have I forgotten the "baby boomers" or all the young men who died in WW2. My point is that there are so many factors to consider that a simple "total deaths" figure is meaningless, which is why experts with £billions in the game have spent countless hours devising actuarial tables, with considerable success.

When reality differs from the predictions it's worth looking at the reasons.

[kenneal - lagger]

I totally agree, Catweazle. I was implying no criticism just trying to add to your point.

[UndercoverElephant]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55850352

A new coronavirus vaccine has been shown to be 89.3% effective against the disease in large-scale UK trials.

The BBC's medical editor Fergus Walsh said the Novavax vaccine is the first to show it is effective against the new more contagious 'Kent' variant of the virus discovered in the UK.

Boris Johnson welcomed the "good news" and said the UK's medicines regulator would now assess the jab.

The UK has secured 60m doses of the jab, which will be made in Teeside.

[Snail]

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-eu-c ... isis-call/

Talk now about backtracking, but interesting. gotta love the eu. Or not.

Saw my first lockdown and restrictions/consequences thereof protestor today. Waved and gave him a thumbs up.

[Stumuz2]

And don't forget how they cynically used Ireland as 'leverage'
https://twitter.com/leaveeuofficial/sta ... 73?lang=en

As Kate Andrew's said,
" It took 29 days for the EU to erode the Northern Ireland Protocol.

Let it never be suggested again that the EU is the 'good faith' actor. Let's not pretend it's the organisation that cares about relations between NI and the Republic. Or that it values contracts, law or institutions.

When it comes to the vaccine, voting brexit has saved lives all over the UK.

[Catweazle]

And don't forget how they cynically used Ireland as 'leverage'
https://twitter.com/leaveeuofficial/sta ... 73?lang=en

I could be misunderstanding it, but aren't they discussing how the UK could be using Ireland as a lever ?

[PS_RalphW]

The government is making a big noise about trying to stop the South African variant from taking hold in the UK. It is more resistant to the current batch of vaccines and as transmissible as the UK varient. However, they have 8 cases in different areas of local transmission found through random sampling. The chances of keeping a lid on it are minimal

[Catweazle]

The government is making a big noise about trying to stop the South African variant from taking hold in the UK. It is more resistant to the current batch of vaccines and as transmissible as the UK varient. However, they have 8 cases in different areas of local transmission found through random sampling. The chances of keeping a lid on it are minimal

They said a while back, and are repeating, that the current vaccines will be effective. I was wondering why they are making all this effort, then today it slipped out that the vaccine is 50-something percent effective against it. Not great.

[clv101]

There's been increased concern about the SA variant from day one, they announced an immediate ban on flights, and isolation of recent arrivals pretty early on. I think the early expectation was lower vaccine efficacy. Given that's pretty much the beginning and end of the UK strategy, a vaccine defeating variant is the worst news Johnson could get.

[kenneal - lagger]

I see that there is implied criticism of the government now for having too many jabs available and that they are saying that we are hogging more than our share. The fact that we have more than our share is because the government didn't know which companies would be successful so they hedged their bets and ordered from all the companies that they thought had the best chance of developing a vaccine. Because they chose well and more than one company has been successful they are now being pilloried for that success. Perhaps the critics might have been happier if we had joined the EU effort as many people said and we would be in the same boat as the EU with few supplies and few people vaccinated.

As it is we will soon be in the happy situation of being vaccinated and having supplies which we can send to poorer countries worldwide to help them.

I heard a very good analogy yesterday which was that we should do as advised on airliners and put our own oxygen mask on before putting others masks on for them. Very apt!

[Little John]

Large Numbers Of Health Care And Frontline Workers in America Are Refusing Covid-19 Vaccine

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/ ... 4pKfo2rXGY

They are not unaware of medical truths

And doubts

And lies

And they know the risks

And they are not morons