New coronavirus in/from China

Forum for general discussion of Peak Oil / Oil depletion; also covering related subjects

Moderator: Peak Moderation

User avatar
PS_RalphW
Posts: 6977
Joined: 24 Nov 2005, 11:09
Location: Cambridge

Re: New coronavirus in/from China

Post by PS_RalphW »

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... s-sceptics
“When you tweet anything to dispute these claims, they come after you endlessly,” said Ritchie. “And with the emoji, it’s almost cult-like. They make the same discredited arguments over and over again. It’s like a robot zombie army.” In the course of a telephone interview, he got four disapproving tweets from the same user, whose profile picture was a great big yellow grin.
I think you need to change your dispute style, LJ - you might get a better response :D
User avatar
Catweazle
Posts: 3388
Joined: 17 Feb 2008, 12:04
Location: Petite Bourgeois, over the hills

Re: New coronavirus in/from China

Post by Catweazle »

Little John wrote: 25 Jan 2021, 02:18 So, you have been presented with the actual statistical evidence, in fine grain detail, laid bare at your feet with full links to all official UK raw data sources on which that evidence is based.

And your response is to engage in goalpost-moving hand-waving.

Are you really that f***ing lost?
To make your figures relevant you need to factor in all of the factors that have improved our life expectancy in the years since 1950. There are many factors, and I understand it's not practical for you to do it, but you don't have to because actual qualified people have done it for you - and as a bonus they have also compiled a comparison with what is happening under the pandemic.

I give you:

Excess Deaths:

https://www.covidfaq.co/Claim-There-are ... 376bb14797


And, as a bonus, a website debunking all of your other claims:

https://www.covidfaq.co/
User avatar
clv101
Site Admin
Posts: 10559
Joined: 24 Nov 2005, 11:09
Contact:

Re: New coronavirus in/from China

Post by clv101 »

Catweazle wrote: 25 Jan 2021, 11:50 To make your figures relevant you need to factor in all of the factors that have improved our life expectancy in the years since 1950. There are many factors, and I understand it's not practical for you to do it...
Indeed, hence we compare this year's deaths with the contemporary period, the last five years. It's meaningless comparing with the population of the 90s, 80s etc.
User avatar
PS_RalphW
Posts: 6977
Joined: 24 Nov 2005, 11:09
Location: Cambridge

Re: New coronavirus in/from China

Post by PS_RalphW »

UK is finally introducing enforced quarantine for overseas viditors, but only from 28 "High risk" countries. At present I doubt there are 28 countries at higher risk than the UK, but this is Boris yet again caving in to corporate interests over scientific advice with half measures that are guaranteed to fail and prolong the economic damage as more transmissible and more dangerous variants are guaranteed to get in and spread. I very much doubt even this will be strictly enforced, with so many small airports, air strips and small harbours that the very rich will barely be inconvenienced.
Little John

Re: New coronavirus in/from China

Post by Little John »

clv101 wrote: 25 Jan 2021, 12:47
Catweazle wrote: 25 Jan 2021, 11:50 To make your figures relevant you need to factor in all of the factors that have improved our life expectancy in the years since 1950. There are many factors, and I understand it's not practical for you to do it...
Indeed, hence we compare this year's deaths with the contemporary period, the last five years. It's meaningless comparing with the population of the 90s, 80s etc.
Is it meaningless comparing it to the last ten years or the last twenty then?

(expletive deleted KN)

Fact: for any comparative period of any length from 1950 to 2000, 2020's death rate (as a percentage of the population dying in any given year), by comparison, is at the absolute BOTTOM of the rankings. The LAST one in the rank.

Fact: in the decade spanning 2001 to 2010, 2020's death rate, by comparison, as a percentage of the population, has 5 years in that decade that are EQUAL TO or HIGHER than 2020.

Fact: ONLY in the decade spanning 2011 to 2020 does 2020 come out as the highest death rate year. But, the difference between the lowest year (2011 at 0.76%) and the highest year (2020 at 0.9%) is relatively tiny at 0.14%.

Fact: ALL of the death rates (INCLUDING 2020) from 2000 to 2020 are SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER than ALL of the years from 1950 TO 1999

These are facts.

You are either a moron, a coward or a hypocrite (the words "moron", "coward" and "hypocrite" are not "expletives. They have exact linguistic meaning and my meaning is entirely intentional. Only a moron would lack that understanding Ken Neil - so leave my (expletive deleted KN) posts alone). Whilst it is not certain which of these you are, it is absolutely certain you are one of these.

--------------------

If you wish to ban me, then (expletive deleted KN) get on with it Ken Neal. You ban me, I will (expletive deleted KN) off.

But, don't you delete my posts mister.
Last edited by Little John on 27 Jan 2021, 18:20, edited 11 times in total.
Little John

Re: New coronavirus in/from China

Post by Little John »

https://off-guardian.org/2021/01/22/the ... wed-a-fly/
The Old Lady Who Swallowed a Fly Is the covid ‘pandemic’ merely economic theatre?
by Maribel Tuff

Off-Guardian commenter, Maribel Tuff, expands their comment Above The Line.

Bringing together the US emergency bank lending crisis and the now massive Covid response, I’ve concluded that one of the main reasons it is happening, apart from the corporate looting, is because of a historic event, the USA’s economic collapse and the dollar’s demise, which started just weeks before this Covid operation kicked off, and has been put on hold by a world wide manufactured economic ‘freeze’.
The end of ‘Extend and Pretend’

A few months before Covid appeared, the Fed were busy pouring literally trillions of dollars into the US banks, to prevent inter-lending bank-runs which were starting to develop. These were the same tectonic fissures that developed prior to the 2008 crisis, where the banks became so distrustful of each other’s solvency, that they massively increased interest rates to each other to factor in the risk. If unsuppressed the lending rates would continue to rise, laying a path to bank failures and a contagion which would eventually derail the economy and undermine the dollar itself.

In September 2019 the Fed intervened in the repo. markets for four consecutive days, pumping $75 billion per day into the banks, as the inter-banking interest rate – the repo rate – peaked at a terrifying 10% [1]. If this level were allowed to contaminate regular highstreet lending, it would cause widespread debt defaults & insolvencies.

The dangers are far greater today because, unlike in 2008, Quantitive Easing (QE) has pushed the Fed to the limits of its credibility, and are forcing them into causing some serious currency debasement. If they continue with the forms of QE they are shackled to, then dollar debasement becomes a certainty in a US economy that is far more fragile & indebted generally and less able to cope.

The Fed must have known for a few years that QE was not returning the economy to economic normality, and that they were still trapped in the solvency crisis of 2008. Knowing this, the Fed were prepared for the latest crisis. They had made it possible to inject hundreds of billions of dollars into the banking system discreetly, unlike in 2008, without any additional Congressional fanfare, via the Financial Stability Oversight Council, formed in 2010.

They had given themselves almost unlimited funds and the resources of the entire government if necessary, to reassure the banks that collapse was impossible. This ‘rescue operation’ was being played out, relatively unreported except in the financial press, only weeks prior to the Covid flu appearing on the world stage. Issuing…

….. cumulative repo loans totalling more than $9 trillion to the trading houses on Wall Street that the Fed had been making from September 17 of 2019 – months before the onset of COVID-19 anywhere in the world…
[2]

Unlike in 2008, this second use or continued use of mass Fed stimulus is not a new untested idea and, by using it again or continuing to use it more intensely to stabilise the banks, it would eventually lead the markets to conclude that we are locked in a never ending cycle of stimulus, which will inevitably end in hyperinflation and dollar collapse.

That is an uncontroversial economic fact, and will be the conclusion of the Fed’s current policy. In that context, an external ‘event’ could be critical in taking the spotlight off US finance and its woes.

The Fed will not want to exit repo operations until they are absolutely certain the market can stand on its own two feet.
[3], [4]

United States Overnight Repo Rate was at 0.11 on Friday January 15


source: tradingeconomics.com

But, as they well know given their experience over the past 10 years, the markets will never be able to stand on their own feet in the current economic model. Now not only companies are being kept afloat by low interests rates, the US itself is dependent and kept solvent by low interest rates.

The fed has injected or made available over 9 trillion dollars to the banks in only 6 months leading up to March 2020, that is over 40% of the USA’s GDP, prior to Covid and represents nearly a 40% increase in the USA’s national debt!

So it is becoming very obvious that we are at the end of this particular monetary road, the ‘extend and pretend’ policy is finished and there is nothing in the economic tool box that can stall the inevitable. Only an external ‘divine’ intervention could, even temporarily delay the dollar’s collapse. As an aside, I should add, although they may be affected later, this is not happening in European or Asian banks, only in US banks.
The Diversion

In my opinion, the US security agencies picked a scenario off the shelf, something they have been justifiably rehearsing for years, the response to a deadly virus, which would produce the required financial shutdown, suppress bank activity, and create a world crisis big enough to eclipse the US economic crisis and produce a ‘flight to safety’ into the dollar, facilitating an economic induced coma, allowing time, a breathing space and justifying massive emergency QE injections into the US and world economy.

It could be sold as a period during which a restructuring of the world banking system could take place and perhaps reschedule debt as well as redefine the mechanisms of a new reserve currency.

This is what I think ‘The Great Reset’ really is about. It is being painted as something intricate and nefarious on every level, but it’s possibly more utilitarian than that, a necessary dialog, where the subject of that dialog is sealed from the public, justified by protecting our worried and panicky ears, and which concerns almost all western world leaders.

I’m sure a major false flag terror attack would have been discussed as an alternative to Covid, but the US is in no fit position economically to respond militarily, and without a military response to a terror attack the US would fear looking weak. Although Wars have been thought to resolve many an economic crisis, it is just as likely, in this instance, that a proxy war with Russia or a direct war with Iran would precipitate a dollar collapse, rather than create growth and a flight to ‘safety’. China would no doubt gleefully humiliate the US during such a conflict. So I speculate that major wars, as an economic solution, are off the table, at least until this crisis is resolved.

Creating a virus out of thin air is a cruel and vicious deceit, but the Fed will no doubt have claimed to its allies that it is far less painful than the total economic implosion we will face in the brewing economic collapse, where financial contagion from the US would cause most western financial institutions to become insolvent, debt would remain unpaid, trade would cease, asset values would crumble, bank machines stop, riots start, martial law be declared, and in many ill-prepared, import-dependent countries like the UK, rationing and eventually hunger would begin.

This is the threat the fed would have made to their allies, as we know for a fact they did in 2008, when asking for a united world central bank stimulus, making it appear vital to world economic survival.

They would have claimed that this time around the economic dangers are of such a magnitude that they even persuaded their foes, Russia and China, to partake in the hoax, because they are also reliant on continued banking & economic stability, and would not be willing to risk political instability at home caused by a second world economic depression.

By creating this suspension of an economic collapse, the US has cleverly turned the dominance of the dollar into a matter of international survival, effectively holding the world to ransom and blocking the baton of world reserve currency being dually transferred over to the next economic ascendant, China, and where the US has effectively engineered themselves a seat amongst the judges at their own bankruptcy hearing.

Believing this to be the case, I am less confused as to why most of the USA’s allies were so helpful and so consistent in making this Covid operation happen, and I have concluded it is their belief in the integrated nature of the financial & currency markets and the threat of economic collapse posited, as in 2008 by the Fed, that is causing their complicity.
Mutual Secrecy

As each irrational, destructive lockdown measure is implemented I am quite sure that our politicians, the very few that are in the know, say to each other: ‘we are lucky because “lockdowns” are as nothing, compared to the calamity that would overtake us in the event of a dollar-induced economic collapse!’ This, for me, explains their apparent insanity, lies and the internationally co-ordinated nature of their response. They too are acting out of fear, not for a virus, but for fear of anarchy and, by extension, the very real threat to their own lives that would result.

The secrecy surrounding this operation is wholly consistent, because it is in nobody’s interests to break ranks. If anyone exposes what is really happening to the US economy then it would precipitate the run on the banks, and then the dollar, that they are being told would lead to a world economic catastrophe.

To explore this hypothesis, we can look at the varying responses of the world players, and measure their reluctance or complicity in the scam, because at this turning point in history, during these shifts of power, loyalty is not guaranteed.

Japan has been strangely reluctant to take part, indicating to me their brooding irritation with US hegemony, which has been growing amongst their population for some years and expressed through the Osprey protests. It looked at one point like they were flirting with the idea of ignoring Covid altogether. Prompting the US to ‘invite’ Japan to join 5-eyes, perhaps to exert more direct control over them, via their security services?

Russia and China are reluctantly playing along for obvious economic reasons, but again we see reluctance to go full hog, despite the attraction of introducing authoritarian measures at home under the cover of Covid. Russia has even invented a non-existent vaccine for the non-existent virus, giving themselves an instant opt-out when required. Whereas China is preferring to just stop testing, and ignore the ‘crisis’ altogether, except for the odd statement about how dangerous it all is.

Non-western Africa, is not taking part at all, in Nigeria there are very few cases, probably because they are out of the loop on what is really happening, and see little evidence of a virus in their population.

Germany although physically occupied by the US, like Japan, have a confidence and independence that marks them apart from other vassal states. Having ‘found’ far fewer cases of Covid, they have tried to preserve their precious economy from any serious harm for as long as possible, demonstrating a cheekiness, consistent with their building of the Nord-stream pipeline project to Russia, ignoring the US’s repeated demands for them to stop.

In contrast, the USA’s closest, most supine of allies, & the 5 eyes states, are enthusiastically taking part, hyping the virus story to the nth degree of absurdity. Notably the UK, France and Australia, each week pushing yet another absurdly fascist response to a non-existent problem to scare their population stiff. In my view each allies’ response is calibrated to their financial dependency on the US and how ‘captured’ their leaders are to US interests.

On the political and media front, alternative media, doubtless spurred on by seeded stories and certain controlled opposition, unwittingly fans these flames by speculating on various kingpins and ideologues central to the plot, like Bill & Malinda Gates, and playing up fear stories of Marxist tyrannies, Communist takeovers, compulsory vaccines, tracking chips and various accusations against the dangers of 5G – targeted for being predominately European and Chinese technology.

The end result is a population left either paralysed by fear of the flu, or in terror of a rising ‘Marxist Fascist tyranny’ run by ‘jewish globalists’ and oligarchs. Either way, everyone is in too fearful a state to logically assess what is really going on around them.

I’m sure, in the dark bowels of Langley, Virginia, this scenario has been pre-rehearsed and stress-tested for years, and pieced together from a huge portfolio of coups and psychological terror operations from around the world.

Perhaps with lessons learned from Climate Change where, as with the weather, the common flu can easily be weaponised. In the case of Covid via a swiftly implemented ‘testing’ regime, simply testing for the common cold and producing millions of false positives, and a hysterical, totally unquestioning mainstream media.
Covid Opportunism

International Covid panic created some short term, but worryingly for the USA, short-lived ‘flight to safety’. ‘International crisis’ is the USA’s traditional and most effective tool to protect the dollar: normally US/UK media-manufactured. It was used to bolster a flagging dollar via the media-created ’Euro crisis’ or ‘Greek debt crisis’. A series of hysterical panics made ‘real’ by US and UK financial press, quickly making the USA’s economic woes old news, and reducing the world reserve holdings of the Euro in only a matter of months.

Along with the ‘flight to (dollar) safety’, Covid has offered the opportunity to freeze the USA’s banking collapse with massive injections of cash. $9 trillions was available to US banks up until March 2020, but in addition to this the Fed produced $5 trillion in economic stimulus to the wider economy and a further 5 trillions recently.

Without this ‘external threat’ – a ‘killer virus’ – this amount of stimulus would have immediately caused panic and threatened dollar credibility. However, with the virus narrative and the world-unified stimulus response to the ‘Covid pandemic’, this modest flight to (dollar) safety, along with the massive cash injections, looked justified and sensible.

It also looks to me like those in the ‘dollar economic zone’ – if there is such a thing – have gone along with their own impoverishment and have wrecked their own economies under the cover of Covid, to save themselves from a perceived greater economic catastrophe, bank contagion, on the basis of what I believe is being secretly told them by the USA, and based on what they have been witnessing in the US banking system prior to March.

It could easily be argued that we are being unwittingly drawn into a conspiracy to protect the dollar and US hegemony, under the cover of Covid, that is not in our own best long-term interests at all (currently being called the ‘great reset’).

Like Brexit and like the War on Carbon, I believe that if an operation or manufactured event seems to offer multifaceted advantages to the USA and their Corporate & military elite, then that operation has revealed its origins.

As it is the case with Covid, not only is there a freeze on the US economic collapse, but US Corporations and Internet services are benefiting massively from the ‘Covid illusion’. Something that must be getting more obvious by the day, and must be giving honest foreign leaders concerns as they see their retail sectors ravaged by DODGY TAX AVOIDERS and their cultural institutions replaced by Netflix, Apple TV and DODGY TAX AVOIDERS TV.

And the proposed ‘salvation’ involves paying billions to US Pharma, for, at best, a very doubtful vaccine. The least-honest politicians can no doubt engineer their ‘shutdowns’ to preference US corporations, whilst acting as the viceroys of Empire.

This looting could just be a side-show to the main event of dollar ‘transition’ or collapse, or it could be amongst the main aims of ‘Operation Covid’, it is difficult to tell, but it looks like the rest of the world is being looted by US Corporations and their home grown small-to-medium-size businesses bankrupted, with vast additional profits flowing to the USA’s richest, where we see the stella rise in the wealth of America’s robber barons.

From renting taxis with Uber to replacing hotels with AirBNB flats, holding meetings on zoom, spending ‘cash free’ via Visa, MasterCard et al and the Paypal cartel, ordering food on-line with Uber eats and destroying local culture, all are being forced on a gullible world public during the Covid selective collapse. It should be dawning on everyone by now that Covid is a very, very Neoliberal Corporate virus, strangely working in the interests of a continued US Corporate neoliberal rollout against our own national geopolitical interests.

It is not only the Corporates that benefit from US ‘operations’ like Covid, the security state also demands their share of the spoils for assisting in and facilitating much of the operation. US tracking apps, social media and communication platforms are being forced, as a parasitical middle man, into every walk of our lives, taking a thin slice off everyday activities, like an America tax.

The details of the implementation of the Covid operation aside, it is possible that many inside the system regard the ‘Great Reset’ as not a conspiracy to oppress us, to exploit us and destroy our lives in a Marxist tyranny as many believe, but rather regard it as a necessary adjustment to an unbalanced economic system.

To see it like that we must believe that the current system is fundamentally flawed and that good faith solutions are being sought. I think ‘The Reset’ is seen by many honest brokers around the world as a genuine platform to resolve flaws in the current world economy, and to manage a transition from the dollar, in a controlled fashion. We should not always think the worst motives of everyone involved.

Having said that, I have no doubt that the US is busy trying to hijack the agenda to preserve its own supremacy, even during its climactic demise. The US Military industrial complex will be suspicious of any direction not determined by them, and I’m sure in Washington, Brussels and Beijing there is a battle over the measures and direction we need to take.

Like it or not, there may be very good reasons for these discussions to be held in secret, and we are left with only secondhand hints of the battles being fought over our current economic future; like Universal income, a shared international reserve currency, digital currencies or a cashless society, perhaps required through exchange controls or price fixing, to fight coming hyper-inflation?

Many US shills will be telling the world, that this is a ‘crisis of capitalism’, a crisis of western civilisation, and that we all need to preserve the US economy & dollar supremacy to save the world.

I personally believe the US has set us up during this crisis, like they did in the last in 2008, where they dumped all their bad debt on European banks to ‘share’ the crisis out. Working on the principle that: a problem shared is a problem halved, perhaps. Even if we are in this crisis because of a US collapse, and the rest of us could survive relatively unscathed. A ‘Reset’ does appear to be one route that enables a slow deflating of the economic bomb sitting under the US and which may affect the rest of us badly, if it goes off.
“ She swallowed the spider to catch the fly;
I don’t know why she swallowed a fly – Perhaps she’ll die… “

I reference the nursery rhyme as a cautionary tail, because this all started with the relatively normal economic recession of 2007, which if the USA had allowed to burn through its economy, would have been resolved in only a few years, and we would be living in normal times now. But they didn’t. The world’s central banks were persuaded to take measures that caused greater long-term harm, which in turn has led, in my view, to the ‘Covid solution’, a provocation intended to temporarily justify even more of the poisonous QE and low interest rates that didn’t work before.

Whilst perhaps sold as a ‘fire-break for a more long term solution to be found, I don’t see much evidence that the ‘fire-break’ is being used well. It seems more like a pause for the always shortsighted American elites to loot as much as is possible from our states’ coffers before an economic tsunami hits.
A Self-Inflicted Problem

I also believe the US never needed to be in this grave position it is today. Its problems are very much self inflicted. Simply taxing its wealthy and cutting its outrageous military spending would have averted a dollar crisis, leading instead to a slow drift from the dollar over a few decades as China took up the strain. But that is another story related to America’s ideological, political and philosophical bankruptcy and scleroses, that has increasingly driven them into an economic ditch over the past 45 years.

The Covid operation itself is a beautiful metaphor for the original banking crisis, which triggered the Fed to use quantitive easing (QE) – a far, far more damaging response than the original crisis itself, just as the lockdowns are far, far more damaging than this strain of flu, naturally occurring or released deliberately as a marker.

If a consensus resolution is not found quickly for the transfer or sharing of the world reserve currency, as the dollar is about to collapse, I have no doubt we will be required to ‘swallow’ a more drastic intervention than Covid to save the US economy and the dollar, each solution proving more damaging than the last …And of course, as the rhyme goes, we will eventually swallow a ‘horse’… and be ‘dead of course’.

If I am right guys, in one respect you can breathe a sigh of relief: world tyranny, forced vaccinations with harmful DNA changes, sterilisations, and mass genocide are not the main aims of this ‘operation’. They may be the end result of it, if we are not careful, but I don’t think they are the main aims.

The US is trying to stall dollar relegation using the Covid operation, and make it a major event, when previously the transition from old to new world reserve currency would have gone almost unnoticed by most of us. The British ceded the Pound’s world reserve currency status relatively quietly after WWII, under US pressure to float the pound.

It is perhaps a measure of the utility that is now offered by the world’s reserve currency, to facilitate the uncontrolled looting of the rest of the world’s economies, that it is now such a prize and so hard to surrender. Without the dollar and its world reserve status, enabling the US to print pieces of green paper in exchange for real goods, the US would certainly be bankrupt.

But that is not our fault and it is not for us in the rest of the world to save them, especially since it is their ideology that has inflicted so much harm on their own people and the rest of world.

What we are witnessing is an attempt, through foul means, by another once great Empire to postpone the inevitable. To fight off being consigned to obscurity.

So we exist in that mad time, that time of collapse and chaos before a new order asserts itself, which could last a month or 100 years.
User avatar
Catweazle
Posts: 3388
Joined: 17 Feb 2008, 12:04
Location: Petite Bourgeois, over the hills

Re: New coronavirus in/from China

Post by Catweazle »

Is that the script for the twice-delayed new James Bond film ? It's a cracker.
Little John

Re: New coronavirus in/from China

Post by Little John »

Fact: for any comparative period of any length from 1950 to 2000, 2020's death rate (as a percentage of the population dying in any given year), by comparison, is at the absolute BOTTOM of the rankings. The LAST one in the rank.

Fact: in the decade spanning 2001 to 2010, 2020's death rate, by comparison, as a percentage of the population, has 5 years in that decade that are EQUAL TO or HIGHER than 2020.

Fact: ONLY in the decade spanning 2011 to 2020 does 2020 come out as the highest death rate year. But, the difference between the lowest year (2011 at 0.76%) and the highest year (2020 at 0.9%) is relatively slight at 0.14%.

Fact: ALL of the death rates (INCLUDING 2020) from 2000 to 2020 are SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER than ALL of the years from 1950 TO 1999

These are FACTS.

Image

Additional to the above, I am of the strong suspicion the sudden fall in death rate after Thatcher was down to the mass immigration policies of the early noughties under Blair. I say this as no lover of Thatcher. I hated her guts. But, I don't think her removal is the reason.

Blair's mass immigration policies will have had the effect of shifting the age demographic spread of the UK population towards more young people. So, hardly surprising that a now reduced portion of the population (the elderly) make a less pronounced contribution to total death rate.

But, the death rate began to climb again from about 2010 onward as, one might guess, some of those immigrant sub-sections of the population began to age themselves as well as a continuation of a more ageing indigenous population anyway.

In other words, 2020 has indeed seen a slight rise in the death rate over and above the growth trend in death rate that was already showing a steady rise since 2010. But, it is slight, relatively speaking

In addition to that slight extra bump in 2020, it looks like there is also an underlying rising trend that is simply population death rates returning to historical norms based on age demographics.

But, that is getting into the finer points of it and is speculation in the absence of further analysis of the raw data (more on that later).

The central take home message from these numbers is that the Government have perpetrated the biggest lie in modern history on the UK population

The next logical step would be to parse out the deaths of various causes for 2020 to establish just how much of that small spike is down to Covid19 and how much is down to lock-down measures and the collapse of proper medical care for a whole variety of other morbidities. However, given the government have consistently lied about causes of deaths since the start of this, there is zero point in trying to get hold of official data on that.

The only thing they cannot hide easily, however, is total death by all causes and by age. That is the weak spot in their bullshit.

So, the next step is to draw up summary stats for percentage of population by age and track that over the same period from 1950 to 2020 for each age group. Say, in age groups of 10 year intervals. So, something like:

<10
11-20
20-30
etc
etc...
80+

This is precisely what I intend to do next.

Then, track any fluctuations in percentage share of the population of, say, the 80+ age range over the years and see if that correlates with fluctuations in death rates over the years. My suspicion is that it will. If it correlates very closely, then the "increases" or "decreases" in death rates from year to year functionally vanish.
User avatar
Catweazle
Posts: 3388
Joined: 17 Feb 2008, 12:04
Location: Petite Bourgeois, over the hills

Re: New coronavirus in/from China

Post by Catweazle »

Isn't it true that with an increasing life expectancy and increasing population the % dying each year must fall ? Unless there is an external factor that distorts the figures by adding, say, 103,000 extra deaths.
User avatar
Catweazle
Posts: 3388
Joined: 17 Feb 2008, 12:04
Location: Petite Bourgeois, over the hills

Re: New coronavirus in/from China

Post by Catweazle »

Little John wrote: 27 Jan 2021, 19:14The only thing they cannot hide easily, however, is total death by all causes and by age. That is the weak spot in their bullshit.

So, the next step is to draw up summary stats for percentage of population by age and track that over the same period from 1950 to 2020 for each age group. Say, in age groups of 10 year intervals. So, something like:

<10
11-20
20-30
etc
etc...
80+

This is precisely what I intend to do next.

Then, track any fluctuations in percentage share of the population of, say, the 80+ age range over the years and see if that correlates with fluctuations in death rates over the years. My suspicion is that it will. If it correlates very closely, then the "increases" or "decreases" in death rates from year to year functionally vanish.
This is nonsense. I've already posted the infant mortality figures, which dropped dramatically from 1950 to the present day. Many other measures have had similar effects, by disregarding them you invalidate all of your claims and, frankly, waste everyones time.
User avatar
UndercoverElephant
Posts: 13502
Joined: 10 Mar 2008, 00:00
Location: UK

Re: New coronavirus in/from China

Post by UndercoverElephant »

Catweazle wrote: 27 Jan 2021, 21:23 frankly, waste everyones time.
I have stopped reading his posts now. It's just angry but meaningless noise.
"We fail to mandate economic sanity because our brains are addled by....compassion." (Garrett Hardin)
Little John

Re: New coronavirus in/from China

Post by Little John »

Catweazle wrote: 27 Jan 2021, 21:12 Isn't it true that with an increasing life expectancy and increasing population the % dying each year must fall ? Unless there is an external factor that distorts the figures by adding, say, 103,000 extra deaths.
All other things being equal, increasing population size, in the long run, has no effect on percentage of deaths in a population. Everybody has to die.

Rapid, large increases in population size of young people will have a temporary downward effect on percentage death rates. But, it is a temporary effect. Additionally, some years later, as that sudden, short term increase works it's way through the age demographic it might be logically assumed to have an similar temporary upwards effect on the death rate.
User avatar
Catweazle
Posts: 3388
Joined: 17 Feb 2008, 12:04
Location: Petite Bourgeois, over the hills

Re: New coronavirus in/from China

Post by Catweazle »

Little John wrote: 28 Jan 2021, 10:14
Catweazle wrote: 27 Jan 2021, 21:12 Isn't it true that with an increasing life expectancy and increasing population the % dying each year must fall ? Unless there is an external factor that distorts the figures by adding, say, 103,000 extra deaths.
All other things being equal, increasing population size, in the long run, has no effect on percentage of deaths in a population. Everybody has to die.
That's only true when the growth rate and life expectancy have reached a steady state. All the time that they are growing then the % deaths per year will fall.
Little John wrote: 28 Jan 2021, 10:14 Rapid, large increases in population size of young people will have a temporary downward effect on percentage death rates. But, it is a temporary effect. Additionally, some years later, as that sudden, short term increase works it's way through the age demographic it might be logically assumed to have an similar temporary upwards effect on the death rate.
All these factors are considered in the "expected deaths" data. It's the only figure worth using.
kenneal - lagger
Site Admin
Posts: 14290
Joined: 20 Sep 2006, 02:35
Location: Newbury, Berkshire
Contact:

Re: New coronavirus in/from China

Post by kenneal - lagger »

Little John wrote: 27 Jan 2021, 08:28 ......................................You are either a moron, a coward or a hypocrite (the words "moron", "coward" and "hypocrite" are not "expletives. They have exact linguistic meaning and my meaning is entirely intentional. Only a moron would lack that understanding Ken Neil - so leave my (expletive deleted KN) posts alone). Whilst it is not certain which of these you are, it is absolutely certain you are one of these.

--------------------

If you wish to ban me, then (expletive deleted KN) get on with it Ken Neal. You ban me, I will (expletive deleted KN) off.

But, don't you delete my posts mister.
I think that the majority of people here would think that it is you, who slavishly follows all these conspiracy theories, who deserves that description, LJ. Your brain has been Spiked!!

As a moderator I will delete posts, but mainly parts of posts, that do not follow the forum rules. We, the moderators, have not discussed banning you as yet as you used to contribute some useful content to the forum. At the moment you are a useful foil, if a boring one, to use in debunking the conspiracy theories over covid.

Seriously, you ought to consider anger management therapy?
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
User avatar
careful_eugene
Posts: 647
Joined: 26 Jun 2006, 15:39
Location: Nottingham UK

Re: New coronavirus in/from China

Post by careful_eugene »

This raises some interesting points, leaving aside the presence of those who illegally accessed the ward, should the doctors have let the patient leave with his friends as he wanted. Do they have the duty / right to keep him there on oxygen to keep him alive? If they let him leave are they risking more people being exposed to infection? https://metro.co.uk/2021/01/26/covid-de ... -13965466/
Paid up member of the Petite bourgeoisie
Post Reply