Are we on the brink of an electric car revolution?

[adam2]

News reports state that new registrations of petrol and diesel cars could be banned in 2032, three years earlier than the recently proposed 2035 date.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51474769

[vtsnowedin]

News reports state that new registrations of petrol and diesel cars could be banned in 2032, three years earlier than the recently proposed 2035 date.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51474769

That presumes a great deal of success for Tesla and competitors over the next decade. Entirely possible but not forgone.

[cubes]

I'm surprised sales of plug-in hybrids are to be banned at the same time. I can understand it, say, 5 years later (although a minimum range, say 75 miles, would be a good requirement too). Might make some peoples transition to fully-electric a bit easier.

[vtsnowedin]

I would think high registration fees and fuel taxes would be sufficient without outright bans.

[PS_RalphW]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ging-times

Factory made production ready battery samples of LiIon batteries that can charge in 5 minutes and at least a 1000 cycles to 80% capacity.

Could be in real cars in a few years. To charge a 50KWh battery in 5 minutes would need 50 * 12 = 600 KW chargers. 350KW chargers are already available.

If you can recharge your car in 5 minutes you don't care about huge batteries to increase your range. Also, you don't need as many charging points because they are occupied for less time.

As long as the price is comparable to current batteries this is close to making ICE cars redundant.

[adam2]

Certainly impressive, but we should remember the challenges of charging so fast.
To charge a 50KWH battery in five minutes would require a charger input of about 630 KWH, presuming 2.5% losses in the charger and another 2.5% losses in the battery.
That is 15 Kw of heat to remove from the charger, and another 15 Kw to remove from the battery. Both are likely to need active cooling.

Providing an input of 630 Kw is non trivial, and effectively impossible domestically. At three phase 230/400 volts that is about 910 amps per phase. 910 amps is close to the sensible upper limit at that voltage. Only practical if the transformer is close to the charger.
An 11 Kv supply to the charger adds cost and complexity, but is worth considering.

A motorway service station with multiple fast chargers will need a dedicated high voltage grid connection. 12 fast chargers each of 630 Kw, and a selection of slower chargers could come to about 10,000 Kw or 10 Mw.
That is beyond the sensible limit even at 11 Kv, and would need a supply at 66Kv or higher.

[kenneal - lagger]

Problems such as this mean that everyone having an e-car that they can use just like an ICE car, instant refuelling, is not going to happen. We need to change our thinking on the way that we live life and get used to a life with less than we had before and forget the "everything will be bigger and better for ever into the future" mindset that we have lived with and educated our children with.

The earth just can't support that lifestyle for every one. It could for a few but the rest would have to live in penury. I suppose that is what the rich foresee; back to serfdom again!!

[PS_RalphW]

I do not think 650KW will be such a big deal. As I said 350KW chargers are already available, if no cars yet to use them.

The move is towards higher voltages, the Porche is an 800V car, and there will be more. At those voltages 650KW is less than an amp.

Fast charging is only really needed when travelling long distances, the majority of charging is currently done at 7KW. 50KW is fine if the charger is at the supermarket, 45 minutes to charge 20-80% as you do your weekly shop. only motorways and similar really need the 5 minute stop and go chargers for commercial and business traffic. Getting the density of chargers in big cities, and remote areas is more of a problem, and at present the free market free for all is a nightmare. Situation is improving slowly with standards and introduction of contactless payment chargers.

Owning an electric car does require a small change in mindset, a little more planning and understanding of power, energy and limits, but that is no bad thing. When I was a kid we had one family car and no journey was undertaken with less than 20 minutes preparation, getting it out of the garage, checking tyre pressures and sometimes oil levels. More than 50 miles needed days of preparation.

[adam2]

At 800 volts, 650 Kw would be over 800 amps, rather than the less than one amp suggested.

That sort of power needs a dedicated transformer with 11 Kv or higher input.

[Potemkin Villager]

I do not think 650KW will be such a big deal. As I said 350KW chargers are already available, if no cars yet to use them.

The move is towards higher voltages, the Porche is an 800V car, and there will be more. At those voltages 650KW is less than an amp.

I think you may have got the decimal point in the wrong place here Ralph!

650kW actually is quite a big deal.

For one I would not want to stand too close a relatively small physical device absorbing energy at that rate. A reliable low contact resistance 800 A rated plug and socket arrangement to connect charger to battery would be interesting to imagine. I would take this sort of puff with a very large pinch of salt as it is primarily designed to suck in more investment to the promoters of this "miracle" technology.

[Potemkin Villager]

I do not think 650KW will be such a big deal. As I said 350KW chargers are already available, if no cars yet to use them.

The move is towards higher voltages, the Porche is an 800V car, and there will be more. At those voltages 650KW is less than an amp.

I think you may have got the decimal point in the wrong place here Ralph!

650kW actually is quite a big deal.

For one I would not want to stand too close to a relatively small physical device absorbing energy at that rate. Amongst other issues a reliable, low contact resistance, 800 A rated plug and socket arrangement to easily connect charger to battery would be interesting to imagine. I would take this sort of puff with a very large pinch of salt as it is primarily designed to suck in more investment to the promoters of this "miracle" technology.

[PS_RalphW]

I did have a brain fart when calculating the current as below 1 amp!

However, the new Gridserve charging station in Essex has several points rated at 350KW already and waiting for cars to plug in. 650KW will be along shortly.

The Tesla model Y is rated at 250KW charging available today in the US

[PS_RalphW]

first commercially available ev with solid state battery.

441KWh
25% higher energy density
300KW recharge rate

https://electrek.co/2020/09/25/daimler- ... tery-pack/

I bet they are expensive

[Potemkin Villager]

Towards the end of this piece is the very telling :-

"Daimler didn’t release the exact timing of deliveries for the solid-state version of the eCitaro, but it is officially being added to the lineup of Daimler buses.

Most experts put solid-state battery mass production at a few years away."

This is the sort of sales and marketing puff that incenses the poor
sods tasked with actually making the miracle product work as advertised!
Casually reading the text you would get the impression these devices were
virtually ready to roll.

[PS_RalphW]

Actually they have delivered 21 (or 41, the article is ambiguous) buses with 150 by years end planned

https://www.electrive.com/2021/02/02/da ... ery-buses/

I knew I should have included this link.

Edit

It seems they use an existing high temperature solid state chemistry that is nearly a decade old

https://www.blue-solutions.com/en/blue- ... eries-lmp/

Probably not the breakthrough technology we are promised