New coronavirus in/from China

A Lone Voice · Post by **A Lone Voice** » 24 Sep 2020, 19:06

"Welcome.
Not certain that I agree with all your points, but welcome anyway"

Thanks for the wecome

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 24 Sep 2020, 19:38

A Lone Voice wrote:..... IMHO the British people will be looking for strong government by next Spring. Someone to make the trains run on time, that sort of thing.

But was that the intention all along?

That is certainly a possibility, yes.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 24 Sep 2020, 19:41

A Lone Voice wrote:"

Thanks very much but it must be well over 40 years since I gave very much credence to anything coming out of a government org. or a private company come to that. In fact, I don't trust anyone with a mortgage or a job as they all seem to have a lot of attachment to the status quo. Personally I stopped work in 1975 and immediately could see much more clearly what was going on. IMHO the British people will be looking for strong government by next Spring. Someone to make the trains run on time, that sort of thing.

But was that the intention all along?

Well that will make pretty much a lone voice indeed.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 24 Sep 2020, 19:48

Little John wrote:I will not volunteer for a vaccine for Covid19 and will kill or die before I am forced to have one. I am not alone.

Your choice of course and for others of like mind but don't expect to travel much or be allowed to work around old or vulnerable people.
I see it as an act of courage for first volunteers and early adopters but many can wait for a year or more to see how the first groups fair with the vaccine.
This is a war against the virus and a vaccine is a weapon you can use against it to protect yourself and your family.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 24 Sep 2020, 20:04

vtsnowedin wrote:
Little John wrote:I will not volunteer for a vaccine for Covid19 and will kill or die before I am forced to have one. I am not alone.
Your choice of course and for others of like mind but don't expect to travel much or be allowed to work around old or vulnerable people.
I see it as an act of courage for first volunteers and early adopters but many can wait for a year or more to see how the first groups fair with the vaccine.
This is a war against the virus and a vaccine is a weapon you can use against it to protect yourself and your family.

Other people are welcome to get a vaccine if they want it. And what I may think or you may think about either their bravery or stupidity is neither here nor there. for myself, I have no intention whatsoever of consenting to one and, after all, if it works, people who have had the vaccine should have nothing to fear of people like me not getting one ..right?

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 24 Sep 2020, 20:28

Little John wrote:Other people are welcome to get a vaccine if they want it. And what I may think or you may think about either their bravery or stupidity is neither here nor there. for myself, I have no intention whatsoever of consenting to one and, after all, if it works, people who have had the vaccine should have nothing to fear of people like me not getting one ..right?

Correct but if enough people chose your path they may well form a cohort that keeps passing the virus from one to the other. Will the tax payers want to finance the cost to the HNS for your care when you finally catch it?

Post by **adam2** » 24 Sep 2020, 21:49

Looks like panic buying has returned.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-54283153

fuzzy · Post by **fuzzy** » 24 Sep 2020, 23:16

adam2 wrote:Looks like panic buying has returned.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-54283153

A spokeswoman said: "We have some products with limits on all year round such as paracetamol and so it works in just the same way."

They are spinning us a yarn. Paracetamol has been in short supply for a long time. Aldi are chronically empty of it for many months. I suspect it is part of the shortage of all drugs that has been gradually occurring. Some like migraleve drop out for months [paracetamol??] Use by dates are much shorter on drugs than 5 yrs ago. I think stocks are lower everywhere. My guess is the chinese are rationing our supply.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 24 Sep 2020, 23:42

vtsnowedin wrote:
Little John wrote:Other people are welcome to get a vaccine if they want it. And what I may think or you may think about either their bravery or stupidity is neither here nor there. for myself, I have no intention whatsoever of consenting to one and, after all, if it works, people who have had the vaccine should have nothing to fear of people like me not getting one ..right?
Correct but if enough people chose your path they may well form a cohort that keeps passing the virus from one to the other. Will the tax payers want to finance the cost to the HNS for your care when you finally catch it?

You are predicating that on (a) an entirely baseless hypothesis that immunity, even assuming only partial, is not formed and (b) an entirely false hypothesis that a majority of people who get Covid19 get anything other than a very mild illness.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 25 Sep 2020, 00:12

Herd immunity is a natural phenomenon and out of the control of the politicians, the medical community, or the deep state. And as it is it gives us a high death rate that continues. And while only a fraction of infected people will get seriously ill or die the number that does get sick and die is high enough to disrupt economies and perhaps unseat governments.
The Vaccine when it becomes available and known to be reasonably safe will become a tool to reduce those death numbers and allow the economy to reopen.
The majority will want to get past Covid-19 and get on with their lives and will look at you as a detriment to their progress.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 25 Sep 2020, 02:57

vtsnowedin wrote:Herd immunity is a natural phenomenon and out of the control of the politicians, the medical community, or the deep state. And as it is it gives us a high death rate that continues. And while only a fraction of infected people will get seriously ill or die the number that does get sick and die is high enough to disrupt economies and perhaps unseat governments.
The Vaccine when it becomes available and known to be reasonably safe will become a tool to reduce those death numbers and allow the economy to reopen.
The majority will want to get past Covid-19 and get on with their lives and will look at you as a detriment to their progress.

Firstly, herd immunity may be outside the control of government in terms of it's final destination. But, is not outside of its control in the speed of getting there.

Secondly, in what way, precisely, will people like me be a "detriment" to the "progress" of others? If the vaccine works... right?

Finally herd immunity in the context of Covid19 it does not give you a high death rate. Again, that is not true. Or, at least, I should say, in every country I have looked at the data (I have not specifically looked at the USA's). But, I am prepared to stand corrected. Do know the specific numbers involved for the USA?

For example:

How many people die in your country per year, on average, of all illnesses combined? I am including the illnesses associated with old age in that question.

How many people have died in your country this year of the above causes, including covid19 deaths?

How many people have died in your country, specifically, of Covid19 deaths this year?

After taking Covid deaths in your country out of the numbers for this year, how many people are left? Does that number match previous years? Or, is it significantly lower? If it is lower, do you know why?

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 25 Sep 2020, 07:42

So, I am still waiting for an answer to those question V. Or, are you going to take the tack of other lock-down cheerleaders on here and simply avoid engagement in debate when it comes down to the numbers because you either don't know what they are or you do and also know they do not support your position?

As I said, I am quite prepared to stand corrected on my any of those numbers as I am genuinely not acquainted with the ones for the USA. But, I am acquainted with many of them for European countries. So, my working assumption for the USA is that they will be broadly the same.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 25 Sep 2020, 07:46

Explains a lot, in a 45 minute nutshell...
Raab let it slip on Sky News that the CoVID tests are only 7% accurate. Confirms what a biomedical diagnostics specialist wrote a few days back that the PCR method is unsuitable for community wide testing and the false positive rate was running at 90%.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhqQd1f ... ture=share

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 25 Sep 2020, 07:49

Half of Britons with tell-tale Covid-19 symptoms may NOT have the disease, study by Public Health England....

> Public Health England (PHE) studied almost 1,000 key workers with symptoms

> 51% had antibodies - proteins in the blood that signal previous infection

> The study suggests a large proportion who need tests don't have the infection

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... gests.html

Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » 25 Sep 2020, 10:33

Little John wrote:Half of Britons with tell-tale Covid-19 symptoms may NOT have the disease, study by Public Health England....

> Public Health England (PHE) studied almost 1,000 key workers with symptoms

> 51% had antibodies - proteins in the blood that signal previous infection

> The study suggests a large proportion who need tests don't have the infection

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... gests.html

So half the people who thought they had already beaten Covid hadn't, and are still vulnerable to it.