New coronavirus in/from China

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 24 Jul 2020, 23:45

Little John wrote:
For those people who consider all of this as bullshit at best and a sinister infringement on liberty at worst, you know what to do.

I'll wager that not one in a thousand Brits will agree with you enough to do what you desire.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 25 Jul 2020, 06:48

kenneal - lagger wrote:

So Russian hasn't deliberately poisoned three people in this country in the last few years and several others in collateral damage with two people dying in the process?

Russia is very bad! Or at least the people in charge are.

At least all our brains haven't been Spiked!

You haven't got a single shred of material evidence to back that up.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 26 Jul 2020, 17:46

Meanwhile Ken, do you have a single shred of evidence to refute the following?

I wont hold my breath waiting for it....

Ordinary surgical masks offer no protection from virus particles. That is a scientifically verifiable fact. Their only function is to limit bacteria particles (which are massively larger than virus particles) and saliva escaping the mouth. Home made face-coverings are even more laughably non-protective in terms of virus particles.

The type of PPE that is typically required to protect form virus particles involves air tight whole face masks in conjunction with positive air pressure feeding into the mask in order to push out any stray particles that may make their way in.

To be precise, the minimum recommended specification for a mask to protect against virus particles is N99.5 or N100 A2P3 (aerosol + particulates) filters on a face fitted half-face respirator, with safety specs which seal around the eye socket. Or, at least, it was the minimum specification prior to this current insanity.

Further to the above, the type of ill-fitting, paper masks that are the ones mainly available to the public allow air to leak from the sides of the mask when the person breathes out may actually be worse than not wearing one. Instead of the air leaving their mouth being under relatively low pressure it is, instead, concentrated into two sideways streams of very high pressure air. All of which means that any virus particles leaving the mouth will likely travel further than if they had left the mouth directly,

But, all of the above is pretty moot anyway. The WHO (World Health Organization) has already stated, on the record, that anyone who has Covid 19, but is asymptomatic (which is at least 60% of all people who get it) has an extremely low chance of passing it on to anyone else. In other words, if they are asymptomatic, they are also shedding extremely low levels of virus particles, if any. On the other hand, anyone who is symptomatic is required to self isolate at home anyway and so will not be out and about spreading the virus.

All of which means, for the vast majority of the public, including the 60% of people who may be infected with Covid 19 but who are asymptomatic, paper face masks and homemade face coverings are utterly useless and irrelevant in equal measure.

Or, at least, that was the WHO's recommendation - for about a week.

So far as can be ascertained, it still is. More or less. But, it's hard to tell since they suddenly and without warning pulled all reference to their original stated position on face masks from their web site one week after making their initial position clear. There has been speculation this was as a result of certain Western governments such as the UK leaning on the WHO, given that the stated mask policies of such governments are overtly based on the (so far as can be established, more or less non existent) danger of passing on the virus asymptomatically. Meanwhile, all MSM reports on the WHO's original statement are now broken links. I know this because I initially bookmarked all such MSM reports when they came out.

This is not about keeping people safe. It never was. It is about compliance.

stumuz1 · Post by **stumuz1** » 26 Jul 2020, 20:33

What do you think of this take on wearing masks for the common good?

https://medium.com/incerto/the-masks-ma ... e897b517b7

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 26 Jul 2020, 20:45

Little John wrote:
kenneal - lagger wrote:..............So Russian hasn't deliberately poisoned three people in this country in the last few years and several others in collateral damage with two people dying in the process?

Russia is very bad! Or at least the people in charge are.

At least all our brains haven't been Spiked!
You haven't got a single shred of material evidence to back that up.

I am quite happy to believe that the police, having conducted their inquiries, have the evidence that they say they have that Russia did it. You you give me any evidence that they didn't apart from the politically inspired rantings from Spiked! Or Russia Today!

The fact that two Russian refugees, for want of a better word, who the Russian government dislikes have been killed in highly unusual circumstances leads me to accept that Russia did it. You might have a conspiracy theory that they didn't but you have no actual evidence that they didn't, no more evidence that I have that they did. So it is your opinion against my opinion. I will believe what I believe and you can believe what you think. I'm a sheep and your brain and common sense has been Spiked!

As to the evidence or not for or against face masks, I am happy to wear one because I believe that in normal breathing the passage of air from my lungs will be slowed down sufficiently to reduce the range of projection of particles of all sizes from my mouth. If I am going to sneeze, which I don't do very often, I will sneeze into my elbow as has been recommended to further reduce the projection of particles from my mouth. You might have a conspiracy theory that they don't help but you have no actual evidence that they don't, no more evidence that I have that they do. So it is your opinion against my opinion. I will believe what I believe and you can believe what you think. I'm a sheep and your brain and common sense has been Spiked!

I have noticed that ever since you have started quoting Spiked your posts have become ever more, I can't think of a better word at the moment than deranged so deranged it will be, deranged. You seem to have been groomed along the lines of someone who has joined an Islamic terror group although the only terror you are indulging in at the moment is against people who have a different opinion to you and Spiked on certain matters discussed here.

Back to the face masks issue. I will happily wear one when I go into a shop because I think that wearing one doesn't hurt anyone and can only make matters better even if only slightly so. If it only brings the R number down from 0.9 to 0.85 then that is a good thing that hasn't cost me anything only a minor bit of inconvenience. If that makes me a sheep in your eyes and in the eyes of Spiked I don't give a shit!! BAAAAA, if that makes you any happier.

One day I hope we can meet up for a pint, Steve, and see if we can really like each other and get along which I would like.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 26 Jul 2020, 20:54

stumuz1 wrote:What do you think of this take on wearing masks for the common good?

https://medium.com/incerto/the-masks-ma ... e897b517b7

God! What a long winded and boring way of saying that wearing a face mask is better than not wearing one. If you enjoy scientific or even nerdy argument that article is for you! If there was a one paragraph prÃ©cis of that I would happily read it and agree with it. As it is I have read as much of it as I can and will agree with the premiss that wearing a face mask can only help.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 29 Jul 2020, 13:48

We are being subjected to the biggest psyop in human history. An argument can be had about the reasons why this is being done to us. But, that it is being done is becoming increasingly unarguable.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video ... rence.html

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 29 Jul 2020, 14:26

The Powers That Be, controlled by world bankers and corporations, are destroying their economy and wealth in order to enslave us all.

Yeh!! right!!

Apart from the fact that they have already got us enslaved with mortgage or rental payments or just tax payments so that we all have no option but to work for them, why would they want to destroy the basis of their wealth?

And something sponsored by the Tea Party Patriots Foundation is going to be sponsored for the benefit of ordinary people? Your ordinary kleptomaniac billionaire people maybe! But LJ's working class man? Not a f***ing chance.

Post by **clv101** » 29 Jul 2020, 22:58

Little John wrote:We are being subjected to the biggest psyop in human history.

Or maybe a socially, politically and economically fragile globalised system, far too complex for planned, rational administration is reeling from an inevitable external shock. The response has been sub-optimal, competitive, divisive, poor - but given the system we have, much of this was also inevitable.

'the biggest psyop in history' it is not.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 30 Jul 2020, 06:31

clv101 wrote:
Little John wrote:We are being subjected to the biggest psyop in human history.
Or maybe a socially, politically and economically fragile globalised system, far too complex for planned, rational administration is reeling from an inevitable external shock. The response has been sub-optimal, competitive, divisive, poor - but given the system we have, much of this was also inevitable.

'the biggest psyop in history' it is not.

I didn't say it wasn't inevitable. I also didn't say we are not ruled by incompetents. However, that changes nothing in terms of their intent and, given the lies that have been told to us on both this issue and also on a whole host of other issues in the last few decades, it takes a special kind of effort to believe a single word of government on any issue now.

Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » 30 Jul 2020, 15:36

Little John wrote:it takes a special kind of effort to believe a single word of government on any issue now.

I knew we'd agree on something sooner or later.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 30 Jul 2020, 16:12

Can you please explain to me , LJ, just why a bunch of extremely rich people would want to destroy the economy upon which their wealth depends?

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 30 Jul 2020, 16:19

kenneal - lagger wrote:Can you please explain to me , LJ, just why a bunch of extremely rich people would want to destroy the economy upon which their wealth depends?

Because it was destroyed anyway. This is just a controlled demolition of an already f***ed economic system that maintains existing power structures. "Economics", as currently contrived, was always only ever a means to maintain those power structures.

It used to be the "Word of God" or the "Divinity of kings" or, sometimes, just plain brute force. "Economics" - due to the limits to growth on a finite planet of 7.5 billion, all of whom naturally wish to enjoy the first world lifestyle we in the West progressively enjoyed for the last two hundred years - is failing.

Other means to maintain power structures are now beginning to be employed.

That's all.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 30 Jul 2020, 16:51

While I agree that the current system is as you say, I can't see that hastening that decline is in anyone's immediate interest and that is how the very rich see things, their immediate interest. I doubt that anyone would be Machiavellian enough to devise a long term plan to destroy the economy and keep power.

If the rich man's bits of paper in the stock exchange or derivatives market, which is where most wealth is held, are worth nothing then you only have the very limited amount of paper money and maybe a bit of gold that you hold in hand left to manifest that power. Power projection post the current economy will be very different to power projection now.

I go with Chris's idea of "cockup" in a previously completely unknown situation rather than design.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 30 Jul 2020, 17:47

Well the chickens are coming home to roost. GDP numbers for the US economy released today show the economy shrank by 32.9 percent for the quarter. Of course this was predictable when they told everyone to stay home and not go to work. Meanwhile due to the Feds stimulus pumping the stock market that had crashed by a third back in March has climbed back to withing four percent of the February highs. (S&P 500 numbers).
Perhaps now people will begin to understand Trump when he says we have to reopen the economy.