New coronavirus in/from China

[vtsnowedin]

At the rate they are going in a few months Google, Facebook,and DODGY TAX AVOIDERS will be the government if they don't own it outright already. They will sub out the National defense to Elon Musk and spaceX.

[clv101]

And will Google and Apple give all this information free or will the government have to pay for it?

If they have to pay it might spur them into actually taxing the bastards.

The key is decentralised, there is no 'all this information', the government never get a thing.

[vtsnowedin]

, the government never get a thing.

I doubt that very much both in the USA and the UK.
It is much more valuable to have information the subjects of don't know you possess. Just how much the governments have will be a highly guarded secret with many layers of cover. It is naive to presume they have been forthcoming about what they are gathering.
Just assume they know how many unwashed dishes are in your sink and you wont be far wrong.

[UndercoverElephant]

My mother, in a nursing home with dementia, has tested positive today. No symptoms. Means we can't even meet her outside in the garden on her birthday next week. Isolation for 14 days, in her room, without a lock, even though she can't remember anything. Nightmare.

[PS_RalphW]

Very sorry to hear that UE. My mum was in a home for her last two years. I remember the day I arrived for a visit and when I walked into her room she smiled sweetly and said "Hello, I am sorry but I don't recognise you"

[UndercoverElephant]

Very sorry to hear that UE. My mum was in a home for her last two years. I remember the day I arrived for a visit and when I walked into her room she smiled sweetly and said "Hello, I am sorry but I don't recognise you"

We aren't at that stage yet, but not far off. The saddest thing is that she does remember my 2-year-old daughter, having made a great effort to. It's all she ever asks about. And yet she may never see her again apart from on a video phone.

[vtsnowedin]

My mother, in a nursing home with dementia, has tested positive today. No symptoms. Means we can't even meet her outside in the garden on her birthday next week. Isolation for 14 days, in her room, without a lock, even though she can't remember anything. Nightmare.

The hardest of times. Do your best and realize that it is all you can do and all that is required.

[Mark]

One for stumuz1....

Almost 100 staff at food factories test positive:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53091149

Any thoughts on why some of the biggest outbreaks have been in meat processing factories and slaughterhouses ?
Is it just that staff work in close proximity and are doing physical work in a cold indoor environment ?
Or are there other contributory factors ?

[adam2]

Often poorly paid work, so staff are likely to live in overcrowded or shared housing.
Many staff are said to be illegal immigrants, so probably reluctant to seek medical help.
Many employers in food factories have a poor record on health and safety matters, such as PPE provision.

If the workplace is refrigerated, as many are, then limited fresh air in order to reduce electricity consumption.
Particularly liable to overcrowded working areas, to reduce the space to be refrigerated/cram as many workers as possible into an existing facility.

[vtsnowedin]

I would also suspect the moving disassembly line traveling from one work station to the next creates an airflow pattern that distributes any air born droplets from worker to worker.

[stumuz1]

One for stumuz1....

Almost 100 staff at food factories test positive:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53091149

Globalisation writ large.

Two sisters food group (Indian) pay minimum wage. Not the best working conditions, cheek by jowl, production lines, and are almost exclusively Eastern European workers.

They live in cramped shared accommodation. But work all the overtime they can get.

So, the virus has ripped through the workforce very quickly

Any thoughts on why some of the biggest outbreaks have been in meat processing factories and slaughterhouses ?

Terrible places to work, same in most countries. As Adam said they tend not to speak the language and live and work together constantly, so anything going around, flu, noro virus, they get and spread quickly.

Or are there other contributory factors ?

Only the ones we have known for a couple of centuries. The state of housing and working conditions is directly proportional to the health of local populations.

Once these disposable workers are too sick to work, they are economically self dismissed and go back to their countries.
Employer happy, local authority happy, Marks and Spencer happy.

It's one of the reasons I voted leave. The local uneducated youngsters cannot get a look in. Supply of workers controlled by Eastern European agencies.

Which country can an uneducated Welsh boy/girl go to to get £50 per hour min wage legally for doing low skilled work? That is the uplift a Bulgarian gets by going to Llangefni.

Globalisation writ large.

[fuzzy]

Talk to any E European doing a basic job in the UK and they all have family land back home to go back to. This the low density opposite of the UK where us peasants only have one option. Land ownership was the real reason factories started in the UK first. Add in the 'baywatch factor' where many overseas speak our language. Those people get the 2nd level 'gangmaster' jobs and are highly mobile for work. As S1 says, only the care home jobs are advertised in the UK now [outside cities]. Presumably the old want to see 'us' around them to reinforce their illusion. Factory/hospitality/service jobs are arranged by overseas agencies.

[Mark]

Excellent post stumuz1.

My only comment would be about your confidence in Brexit to change the situation.
I think that we'll just end up swapping Bulgarians for Indians or Nigerians....

HMG will still want us to trade internationally and be 'competitive'...
The economy will still be controlled by Apple, Google, DODGY TAX AVOIDERS etc.
Our island mentality sometimes makes us want to pull up the drawbridge.....
But sadly, I don't think that we can divorce ourselves from globalisation....

We need a better taxation/welfare system to help the young boys/girls you mention.
And in this case, empowered/braver Regulators (HSE/EHOs), who are actually prepared to close down factories that flout the rules...

[fuzzy]

I don't think the employers are breaking many rules. It is not a problem of the young or the uneducated, as the media pretends. It is anyone, especially male, outside of the few thriving cities.

[Little John]

Excellent post stumuz1.

My only comment would be about your confidence in Brexit to change the situation.
I think that we'll just end up swapping Bulgarians for Indians or Nigerians....

HMG will still want us to trade internationally and be 'competitive'...
The economy will still be controlled by Apple, Google, DODGY TAX AVOIDERS etc.
Our island mentality sometimes makes us want to pull up the drawbridge.....
But sadly, I don't think that we can divorce ourselves from globalisation....

We need a better taxation/welfare system to help the young boys/girls you mention.
And in this case, empowered/braver Regulators (HSE/EHOs), who are actually prepared to close down factories that flout the rules...

If we end up swapping Bulgarians for Nigerians, Brexit and Trump will be as nothing to what comes next.

(Comment removed - K-L)