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Little John

Post by Little John »

vtsnowedin wrote:
Little John wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:I think I have said this before but to pound a point.
I would not want to be an obese, diabetic, long time smoker,over seventy and living in a nursing home.
The whole world or at least the Covid-19 is out to get you and the odds are not in your favor.
Smoking is an odd one. Or, at least, nicotine consumption is. A few proper scientific studies (not bullshit "estimates" pulled out of someone's arse) have now shown a highly significant negative correlation between nicotine consumption and (a) ending up in hospital with Covid 19 and (b) percentage of nicotine consumers who are in hospital with Covid 19 dying of it as compared to the percentage of non nicotine consumers in hospital dying of Covid 19. In short, fewer nicotine users getting it and, of those that do, fewer of them dying of it as compared to the rest of the population.

Nobody has any proper idea why. But, the numbers are the numbers.
Interesting. I would think just the loss of lung capacity of a smoker would be enough to do you in. Perhaps many of the longtime smokers have already checked out so can't die again.
Once again more research is needed. :)
That thought had occurred to me.

Given that (a) most of the Coivid 19 hospital admission are people 75 and up and (b) anyone who is still regularly smoking and alive at the same time post 75 probably has the constitution of an ox and so is not a fair representative of the population irrespective of their smoking.
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clv101
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Post by clv101 »

From a chap on Facebook I follow:
Here in France, the lockdown ended 10 days ago. The weekly market was back to full strength today (and busy), shops are mostly open, many of the restaurants are doing takeaways and people are back on the streets. My local takeaway pizza guy is reporting business almost back to normal. The local music college has its students back into their accomodation, ready for the full college reopening in a week’s time, and meanwhile they seem to be enjoying the sunshine in the local parks with few concerns about social distancing. We even have a few French tourists here, presumably from within the regulation 100km travel radius. Next week bars and restaurants expect some kind of opening, perhaps outside space only. It is all good to see.

But it is not ‘back to normal’ by any means; there are very few cars about, people seem more subdued and it is less easy to recognise and greet people when you can’t see their face behind a mask, let alone the usual handshake. Others I’ve spoken to are finding it strange too.

I am surprised to find that I have found it harder to deal with the end of lockdown than the lockdown itself. Before I was waiting for lockdown to end, a short term task. But once it was ended, we all entered a future of second waves and masks and social distancing that looks far less structured, more uncertain, and with plan and no milestone to wait for, when it all might get better. Maybe you guys in Britain will find the same.

This report below suggests Britain will take years to get back to what we used to call ‘normal’ just 6 months ago. But in fact it is increasingly difficult to see anything other than the ‘L’ shaped world recession where there IS no recovery for many years to come, just a new, lower level of ‘normal’. With 20% or 30% unemployment, many people won’t be contributing to the economy as either producers or as buyers and, with that much less business about, many companies will become unprofitable, more out of work - the dreaded downward economic spiral.

There are two things that always follow increased poverty: increased crime and increased mortality, and we can expect that everywhere. In Britain, after years of austerity cuts and a greatly reduced police force, criminality has less to constrain it. A local robbery last year when I lived in England took 3 days for the police even to arrive and they admitted they would do nothing - they just didn’t have the resources.
A number of studies of homelessness in Britain have suggested many years of life reduction, even decades for those young people on the streets, and the charities that try to support them have now suffered a huge cut in contributions from all sources.
Neither of these situations show any signs of getting any better through a recession.

But if all that sounds bad, spare a thought for the developing countries that rely on selling raw materials or products to the West, and remittences received from migrant-relatives already in the West, and on charities, and on international development funding. For them, this crisis means a semi-permanent decline back into poverty and even starvation, with thousands, perhaps millions of lives at risk. Poverty will unsettle their politics and generate wars, both local revolutions overthrowing governments, and inter-country wars over basic resources.

To put all this into some kind of context, I suspect all this may be the turning point, and that we’ve just passed Peak everything; in world population growth, life expectancy, world health and wealth and a dozen other indicators of former progress (whatever that means).
It is not unexpected - the Peak Oil followers have forecast such an event for decades, and the famous scientist, James Lovelock of Gaia Theory fame, has forecast this pandemic scenario and, although he’s now 100 years old, I’m sure will be watching events unfold with great interest. (http://www.jameslovelock.org/ )

I kinda expected it too but there is a big difference between an intellectual exercise and an imminent reality. I feel fortunate to be in what I think is the right place to weather these storms (as best I can tell) but who knows what will happen next.

I have a saying;
‘You can only be disappointed if you started out with unrealistic expectations.’
It helps to stop me blaming other people when shit happens! However hard it is, I would recommend realistic expectations in the current circumstances, and make your plans and preparations on that basis. Then who knows, maybe we’ll all end up being pleasantly surprised! 🙂
My bold, above. We knew collapse was coming, the only uncertainty was the precise mechanism and timing. That's a lot less uncertain now.
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Post by vtsnowedin »

Pretty spot on but with this:
With 20% or 30% unemployment, many people won’t be contributing to the economy as either producers or as buyers and, with that much less business about, many companies will become unprofitable, more out of work - the dreaded downward economic spiral.
He misses that with that many unemployed there will not be enough people working and paying taxes to cover the cost of the 30% unemployed.
It will not be a downward spiral but instead a sudden flush.
Little John

Post by Little John »

clv101 wrote:From a chap on Facebook I follow:
Here in France, the lockdown ended 10 days ago. The weekly market was back to full strength today (and busy), shops are mostly open, many of the restaurants are doing takeaways and people are back on the streets. My local takeaway pizza guy is reporting business almost back to normal. The local music college has its students back into their accomodation, ready for the full college reopening in a week’s time, and meanwhile they seem to be enjoying the sunshine in the local parks with few concerns about social distancing. We even have a few French tourists here, presumably from within the regulation 100km travel radius. Next week bars and restaurants expect some kind of opening, perhaps outside space only. It is all good to see.

But it is not ‘back to normal’ by any means; there are very few cars about, people seem more subdued and it is less easy to recognise and greet people when you can’t see their face behind a mask, let alone the usual handshake. Others I’ve spoken to are finding it strange too.

I am surprised to find that I have found it harder to deal with the end of lockdown than the lockdown itself. Before I was waiting for lockdown to end, a short term task. But once it was ended, we all entered a future of second waves and masks and social distancing that looks far less structured, more uncertain, and with plan and no milestone to wait for, when it all might get better. Maybe you guys in Britain will find the same.

This report below suggests Britain will take years to get back to what we used to call ‘normal’ just 6 months ago. But in fact it is increasingly difficult to see anything other than the ‘L’ shaped world recession where there IS no recovery for many years to come, just a new, lower level of ‘normal’. With 20% or 30% unemployment, many people won’t be contributing to the economy as either producers or as buyers and, with that much less business about, many companies will become unprofitable, more out of work - the dreaded downward economic spiral.

There are two things that always follow increased poverty: increased crime and increased mortality, and we can expect that everywhere. In Britain, after years of austerity cuts and a greatly reduced police force, criminality has less to constrain it. A local robbery last year when I lived in England took 3 days for the police even to arrive and they admitted they would do nothing - they just didn’t have the resources.
A number of studies of homelessness in Britain have suggested many years of life reduction, even decades for those young people on the streets, and the charities that try to support them have now suffered a huge cut in contributions from all sources.
Neither of these situations show any signs of getting any better through a recession.

But if all that sounds bad, spare a thought for the developing countries that rely on selling raw materials or products to the West, and remittences received from migrant-relatives already in the West, and on charities, and on international development funding. For them, this crisis means a semi-permanent decline back into poverty and even starvation, with thousands, perhaps millions of lives at risk. Poverty will unsettle their politics and generate wars, both local revolutions overthrowing governments, and inter-country wars over basic resources.

To put all this into some kind of context, I suspect all this may be the turning point, and that we’ve just passed Peak everything; in world population growth, life expectancy, world health and wealth and a dozen other indicators of former progress (whatever that means).
It is not unexpected - the Peak Oil followers have forecast such an event for decades, and the famous scientist, James Lovelock of Gaia Theory fame, has forecast this pandemic scenario and, although he’s now 100 years old, I’m sure will be watching events unfold with great interest. (http://www.jameslovelock.org/ )

I kinda expected it too but there is a big difference between an intellectual exercise and an imminent reality. I feel fortunate to be in what I think is the right place to weather these storms (as best I can tell) but who knows what will happen next.

I have a saying;
‘You can only be disappointed if you started out with unrealistic expectations.’
It helps to stop me blaming other people when shit happens! However hard it is, I would recommend realistic expectations in the current circumstances, and make your plans and preparations on that basis. Then who knows, maybe we’ll all end up being pleasantly surprised! 🙂
My bold, above. We knew collapse was coming, the only uncertainty was the precise mechanism and timing. That's a lot less uncertain now.
Collapse may well be coming. But, it has been massively hastened and concentrated by certain policies over the last 3 months that have got F--k all to do with protecting people from a virus.
Last edited by Little John on 22 May 2020, 11:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Catweazle
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Post by Catweazle »

On the subject of collapse, I expected to hear of some funds in trouble after the recent negative oil contract prices. I can't see anything on the news about it.
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Post by Mean Mr Mustard II »

Already bailed out by the taxpayer? Nothing to see here.
When you're dealing with exponential growth, the time to act is when it feels too early.
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Post by clv101 »

Little John wrote:But, it has been massively hastened and concentrated by certain policies...
Absolutely! That's a feature of collapse, the outgoing powers compounding the predicament through poor decisions. One reason why collapse tends to be faster than growth? You're familiar with the Seneca Cliff?

https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/ ... edir_esc=y
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Post by BritDownUnder »

Mean Mr Mustard II wrote:Already bailed out by the taxpayer? Nothing to see here.
Too big to fail?

or...

Fortune is slow but ruin is rapid - Seneca
G'Day cobber!
Little John

Post by Little John »

Big tech is now censoring scientists not "on message"

https://nypost.com/2020/05/16/youtube-c ... -lockdown/
Big Tech companies are aggressively tamping down on COVID-19 “misinformation� — opinions and ideas contrary to official pronouncements.

Dr. Knut M. Wittkowski, former head of biostatistics, epidemiology and research design at Rockefeller University, says YouTube removed a video of him talking about the virus that had racked up more than 1.3 million views.
Little John

Post by Little John »

Wealth of the super rich has increased since start of pandemic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKt0mVo ... ture=share
vtsnowedin
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Post by vtsnowedin »

Little John wrote:Wealth of the super rich has increased since start of pandemic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKt0mVo ... ture=share
I don't see that in the evil light you do. To prop up the stock market and all the retirement accounts that have investments in it you have to increase stock prices. The Big guns retain huge blocks of shares in their companies so to bail out my retirement fund or your 401k makes them a paper profit. If they sell inflated shares to buy yachts or whatever trinket amuses them they will pay capital gains tax on the sale.
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Mean Mr Mustard II
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Post by Mean Mr Mustard II »

vtsnowedin wrote: If they sell inflated shares to buy yachts or whatever trinket amuses them they will pay capital gains tax on the sale.
Have nots and have yachts... Come the Revolution...

Image
When you're dealing with exponential growth, the time to act is when it feels too early.
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Post by UndercoverElephant »

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 9720323792
Temperature significantly changes COVID-19 transmission in (sub)tropical cities of Brazil
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Post by UndercoverElephant »

clv101 wrote:From a chap on Facebook I follow:

I have a saying;
‘You can only be disappointed if you started out with unrealistic expectations.’
It helps to stop me blaming other people when shit happens! However hard it is, I would recommend realistic expectations in the current circumstances, and make your plans and preparations on that basis. Then who knows, maybe we’ll all end up being pleasantly surprised! 🙂
My bold, above. We knew collapse was coming, the only uncertainty was the precise mechanism and timing. That's a lot less uncertain now.
You certainly can be disappointed even if you start out with realistic expectations. You're just much more like to be be disappointed if you start out with unrealistic ones.

But yes. It still all spins on the monetary system for me. It is the glue that holds everything else together, but it only works if you can keep economic growth going - and that just ended.

Looks to me like we are heading towards an economic meat-grinder. Slashing spending isn't an option, because that just deepens the depression, so they must choose between money-printing without end or borrowing without end. I don't see a way out. We'll end up with people's living standards being driven downwards until they start dying, or there's some catastrophic breakdown and the whole monetary-economic system falls apart. Or there is some sort of revolution.
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Post by vtsnowedin »

Mean Mr Mustard II wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote: If they sell inflated shares to buy yachts or whatever trinket amuses them they will pay capital gains tax on the sale.
Have nots and have yachts... Come the Revolution...

Image
I think the rich having discovered that their island get away will not welcome them by private jet or yacht are now looking for an estate /mansion/ bunker here in the states.
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