New coronavirus in/from China

eatyourveg · Post by **eatyourveg** » 19 May 2020, 11:33

Little John wrote:
eatyourveg wrote:
Little John wrote:You clearly don't live in the world the majority do. The one where 80% of the shit wages they were already on will not pay the bills. The one where they live in shoe boxes in dense urban environments. The one where the shitty job on shitty money they were on before this lockdown will not even be there when it lifts.

Oh, and by the way, strokes and heart attacks overwhelmingly occur in the elderly and comorbid. Can you work out the rest?.....
What can I say, you are in your bubble, I'm in mine. My physical location and my head location are the results of decisions I have made through my life. This is what I aimed for, it's what I got.
Bollocks

I am simply stating facts for the majority of the population. I also know and understand what the facts are for a minority of the population.

Jesus, you just can't help yourself can you? Give it a f***ing rest.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 19 May 2020, 11:41

Give the facts a rest?

No

Post by **clv101** » 19 May 2020, 11:48

Little John wrote:Oh, and by the way, strokes and heart attacks overwhelmingly occur in the elderly and comorbid. Can you work out where they have gone yet?.....

Also remember excess deaths are significantly higher than (official) covid deaths, what are the additional non-covid deaths from?

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 19 May 2020, 11:51

clv101 wrote:
Little John wrote:Oh, and by the way, strokes and heart attacks overwhelmingly occur in the elderly and comorbid. Can you work out where they have gone yet?.....
Also remember excess deaths are significantly higher than (official) covid deaths, what are the additional non-covid deaths from?

People having their operations and treatments cancelled on a massive scale for all non-covid-19 conditions would be the first place to look.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 19 May 2020, 12:55

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/0 ... ls-reopen/
Well at least they are trying to open schools.
I think in the UK and US they should wait for fall as this year is already shot academically. By fall we will know a lot more will have worked out the best course forward.

boisdevie · Post by **boisdevie** » 19 May 2020, 13:26

vtsnowedin wrote:https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/0 ... ls-reopen/
Well at least they are trying to open schools.
I think in the UK and US they should wait for fall as this year is already shot academically. By fall we will know a lot more will have worked out the best course forward.

If the schools don't open then a lot of people will not be able to go back to work even if they want to. The economy would take a massive hit. Can we afford to not open the schools? I'd say no.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 19 May 2020, 13:36

boisdevie wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/0 ... ls-reopen/
Well at least they are trying to open schools.
I think in the UK and US they should wait for fall as this year is already shot academically. By fall we will know a lot more will have worked out the best course forward.
If the schools don't open then a lot of people will not be able to go back to work even if they want to. The economy would take a massive hit. Can we afford to not open the schools? I'd say no.

In the USA schools are normally closed for summer vacation from early June to just before Labor day(Sept. 7). The children should go wherever they usually go in the summer. That does mean daycare centers need to open now and in a way that lets parents drop off their children and get to work on time.
There are no easy or perfectly safe choices here and adults need to make some tough decisions. I would get the government out of it and let parents and staff decide what levels of protection they can live with.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 19 May 2020, 13:54

vtsnowedin wrote:
boisdevie wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/0 ... ls-reopen/
Well at least they are trying to open schools.
I think in the UK and US they should wait for fall as this year is already shot academically. By fall we will know a lot more will have worked out the best course forward.
If the schools don't open then a lot of people will not be able to go back to work even if they want to. The economy would take a massive hit. Can we afford to not open the schools? I'd say no.
In the USA schools are normally closed for summer vacation from early June to just before Labor day(Sept. 7). The children should go wherever they usually go in the summer. That does mean daycare centers need to open now and in a way that lets parents drop off their children and get to work on time.
There are no easy or perfectly safe choices here and adults need to make some tough decisions. I would get the government out of it and let parents and staff decide what levels of protection they can live with.

Well, if daycare centres have to especially open to accommodate the kids while their parents work, the schools may as well do it since it is them that would have done it anyway and educated them into the bargain

Post by **clv101** » 19 May 2020, 14:16

boisdevie wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/0 ... ls-reopen/
Well at least they are trying to open schools.
I think in the UK and US they should wait for fall as this year is already shot academically. By fall we will know a lot more will have worked out the best course forward.
If the schools don't open then a lot of people will not be able to go back to work even if they want to. The economy would take a massive hit. Can we afford to not open the schools? I'd say no.

It's a bit academic, as if exponential spread takes off again we can expect rapid and tighter lockdown to be reimposed. We aren't going to sit around (at work, school, shopping, on the bus) for weeks as hospital admissions rise.

The debate shouldn't be about what to open or when, but about an effective mechanism for controlling spread - testing, tracing, isolation and wearing masks. Sadly our government *still* hasn't properly engaged with this problem.

Proponents of lifting lockdown sooner rather than later need to realise that *without* effective containment lockdown will just be reimposed again as exponential growth resumes.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 19 May 2020, 15:04

clv101 wrote:
boisdevie wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/0 ... ls-reopen/
Well at least they are trying to open schools.
I think in the UK and US they should wait for fall as this year is already shot academically. By fall we will know a lot more will have worked out the best course forward.
If the schools don't open then a lot of people will not be able to go back to work even if they want to. The economy would take a massive hit. Can we afford to not open the schools? I'd say no.
It's a bit academic, as if exponential spread takes off again we can expect rapid and tighter lockdown to be reimposed. We aren't going to sit around (at work, school, shopping, on the bus) for weeks as hospital admissions rise.

The debate shouldn't be about what to open or when, but about an effective mechanism for controlling spread - testing, tracing, isolation and wearing masks. Sadly our government *still* hasn't properly engaged with this problem.

Proponents of lifting lockdown sooner rather than later need to realise that *without* effective containment lockdown will just be reimposed again as exponential growth resumes.

and then what?

boisdevie · Post by **boisdevie** » 19 May 2020, 15:09

Little John wrote:
clv101 wrote:
boisdevie wrote: If the schools don't open then a lot of people will not be able to go back to work even if they want to. The economy would take a massive hit. Can we afford to not open the schools? I'd say no.
It's a bit academic, as if exponential spread takes off again we can expect rapid and tighter lockdown to be reimposed. We aren't going to sit around (at work, school, shopping, on the bus) for weeks as hospital admissions rise.

The debate shouldn't be about what to open or when, but about an effective mechanism for controlling spread - testing, tracing, isolation and wearing masks. Sadly our government *still* hasn't properly engaged with this problem.

Proponents of lifting lockdown sooner rather than later need to realise that *without* effective containment lockdown will just be reimposed again as exponential growth resumes.
and then what?

We're assuming that
1. Exponential growth will happen and
2. Those effected would need hospital treatment

Given how the virus is most dangerous to old/unhealthy people a vast majority would NOT need hospital treatment. And to those about to post an anecdote about a perfectly healthy xxxx who died - exceptions don't disprove the rule.

Oh, and if we have to go into more and more lockdowns well that's the economy gone forever.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 19 May 2020, 15:28

Additionally, I neglected to mention, these are case fatality rates, not infection fatality rates which will be an order of magnitude or more lower still.

Little John wrote:If you are under 50 and have no comorbidities, you likely have more chance of being run over than you do of dying of Covid-19.

If you are under 70 with no comorbidities, the odds are still massively that you will not die

Meanwhile, our economy is being reduced to a smoldering ruin and our society is being turned into a real life version of George Orwell's "1984" novel

And half of you buggers on here are lapping it up.....

https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-ri ... -19-by-age

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 19 May 2020, 15:46

Little John wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:
boisdevie wrote: If the schools don't open then a lot of people will not be able to go back to work even if they want to. The economy would take a massive hit. Can we afford to not open the schools? I'd say no.
In the USA schools are normally closed for summer vacation from early June to just before Labor day(Sept. 7). The children should go wherever they usually go in the summer. That does mean daycare centers need to open now and in a way that lets parents drop off their children and get to work on time.
There are no easy or perfectly safe choices here and adults need to make some tough decisions. I would get the government out of it and let parents and staff decide what levels of protection they can live with.
Well, if daycare centres have to especially open to accommodate the kids while their parents work, the schools may as well do it since it is them that would have done it anyway and educated them into the bargain

Day cares tend to have six to fifteen children and a couple off staff members each. Schools have two hundred or more in a single building with sixty passenger buses transporting the children to and from school. What was an economy of scale now has become a nightmare of logistics.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 19 May 2020, 15:56

vtsnowedin wrote:
Little John wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:In the USA schools are normally closed for summer vacation from early June to just before Labor day(Sept. 7). The children should go wherever they usually go in the summer. That does mean daycare centers need to open now and in a way that lets parents drop off their children and get to work on time.
There are no easy or perfectly safe choices here and adults need to make some tough decisions. I would get the government out of it and let parents and staff decide what levels of protection they can live with.
Well, if daycare centres have to especially open to accommodate the kids while their parents work, the schools may as well do it since it is them that would have done it anyway and educated them into the bargain
Day cares tend to have six to fifteen children and a couple off staff members each. Schools have two hundred or more in a single building with sixty passenger buses transporting the children to and from school. What was an economy of scale now has become a nightmare of logistics.

They have two hundred or more in a single building for a reason. Because that many children are involved. In what way are, by your own reckoning, day care centres going to be able to cope with the numbers of kids needing to be somewhere while their parents are at work?

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 19 May 2020, 15:56

clv101 wrote:
boisdevie wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/0 ... ls-reopen/
Well at least they are trying to open schools.
I think in the UK and US they should wait for fall as this year is already shot academically. By fall we will know a lot more will have worked out the best course forward.
If the schools don't open then a lot of people will not be able to go back to work even if they want to. The economy would take a massive hit. Can we afford to not open the schools? I'd say no.
It's a bit academic, as if exponential spread takes off again we can expect rapid and tighter lockdown to be reimposed. We aren't going to sit around (at work, school, shopping, on the bus) for weeks as hospital admissions rise.

The debate shouldn't be about what to open or when, but about an effective mechanism for controlling spread - testing, tracing, isolation and wearing masks. Sadly our government *still* hasn't properly engaged with this problem.

Proponents of lifting lockdown sooner rather than later need to realise that *without* effective containment lockdown will just be reimposed again as exponential growth resumes.

Well for one thing it does not grow exponentially and the word is used to scare people. We can not lock down a second time as we can not afford it emotionally or financially. All that government help eventually has to be paid for by the tax payers (you and I) and we are going to have a hard time paying for what they have spent now, much less after a second lockdown destroys millions of peoples livelihoods which is the source of those tax dollars.
We have to open back up and keep it open while enduring whatever increased death toll that results in. That is a grim reality but reality it is and all proposed alternative course are much worse in their final result.