New coronavirus in/from China

[Little John]

Yes to all that.
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I'm getting pretty bored of the lockdown though. I still fear the disease, but the monotony is grinding me down.

We should suck it up and deal with a bit of monotony. It is the loss of jobs and drain on your bank account balance that should have you fighting mad.

My bank account is fine.

The extent to which your bank account may be said to be fine is not dependent on the numbers contained therein. It is dependent on the exchange value of those numbers and that is dependent on the state of the economy.

[fuzzy]

Meanwhile, long awaited operations are being cancelled, those with long-term illnesses which need constant monitoring are having their consultations cancelled and result of medical tests lost in the system.

The young and healthy must be allowed to mix freely in society at this stage of the virus's development so that they are ready for the second stage. If young people don't develop immunity at this stage, then they become as vulnerable as the old are now when it mutates to the next stage.

This is what some of us have now been saying for weeks. But, everybody has been so whipped up into a state of pant shitting hysteria, it is like banging one's head against a brick wall trying to explain this to people. Even on here.

Or, perhaps, especially on somewhere like here.

I think the pant shitting hysteria in gov is the thought of ring fencing the vulnerable with welfare. If batflu causes various complications in survivors do they join the vulnerable shielding? Will it end up as a huge group? If the shielded are allowed a permanent change, how long before the healthy resent this? What about the covid injured? Will people be whistleblowing the shielded seen outside?

[Catweazle]

80% of all people who get Covid 19 will recover unproblematically and many of them will not even know they had it.

Your arguments make some sense, if we knew this to be true.

We don't.

Nobody does.

You are prepared to gamble on this virus acting like previous types. Many scientists, it seems, aren't. I don't believe these scientists are in the pocket of globalist conspirators.

I think you need to skip the paranoid websites for a while and try to get back to your previous more rational self.

[Catweazle]

If batflu causes various complications in survivors do they join the vulnerable shielding? Will it end up as a huge group? If the shielded are allowed a permanent change, how long before the healthy resent this? What about the covid injured? Will people be whistleblowing the shielded seen outside?

Good points. It's not flu though, it's already been found in bats, pangolin, dogs, cats, mink. This virus is very unusual.

[UndercoverElephant]

We should suck it up and deal with a bit of monotony. It is the loss of jobs and drain on your bank account balance that should have you fighting mad.

My bank account is fine.

The extent to which your bank account may be said to be fine is not dependent on the numbers contained therein. It is dependent on the exchange value of those numbers and that is dependent on the state of the economy.

My bank account has relatively little going in, and relatively little going out. It has not been significantly affected by the pandemic so far.

[Catweazle]

A study published 14th May suggests that immunity might be enjoyed by recovered Covid19 cases, although it's not certain, or yet known if this will last.

https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opin ... ents-67540

[kenneal - lagger]

I see grasping at straws

First we are told we need to keep the complete lock-down because millions would die irrespective of age, morbidity etc etc and anyone who disagrees is a right wing fascist murderer. Obviously. This is a lie.

Then we we are told we need to keep the complete lock down because large numbers of young people are getting it. This is also a lie.

Then we are told we need to keep the lock-down because it might be "killing the kids" despite the fact that (a) Kawasaki disease existed before Covid 19 and (b) the number of kids who are getting this are incredibly rare and (c) there is no proof of a link between the current incidence of Kawasaki disease and Covid 19. This is also most likely a lie. But, at the very least, is a gross exaggeration.

Now, we are being told we need to keep the lock-down because there may be all kinds of "complications" as yet unproven in any statistically verifiable way. More hysterical fear mongering.

Here are some numbers we do know:

5% of all people who get Covid 19 will die in the absence of significant medical intervention. Mostly the elderly and comorbid.

15% of all people who get Covid 19 will get seriously ill and need to go to bed for a few days to a week or so. but will likely not die of it. Again, this 15% is made up of largely the elderly and comorbid

80% of all people who get Covid 19 will recover unproblematically and many of them will not even know they had it.

This just shows that we are still learning about a brand new, previously unseen disease and to make pronouncements on it at this stage on the basis of previously seen diseases is unwise to say the least.

[clv101]

Here's a good summary:

Covid-19: Beware the gaslighting
https://medium.com/@AlexHeffron88/covid ... afba46a688

[vtsnowedin]

Here's a good summary:

Covid-19: Beware the gaslighting
https://medium.com/@AlexHeffron88/covid ... afba46a688

You call that good?
Maybe on the first graph they should have added the lines for Italy and the UK. On the second graph brassy of them to label the blue excess deaths as "facts".
On Sweden's economy they might acknowledge that they have an export economy and the lockdowns in the rest of Europe have crimped exports.
" Beware of this gaslighting" would be a better title.

[Snail]

It's brexit all over again. Stupid lower classes don't realize how easily manipulated they are. The reality they see isn't reality at all; merely one glimpsed through a thick, exploitative haze. Of course, the we-know-best have a highly developed force field against such crudities. And have no compunction using the same manipulation they accuse others of.

What's universal credit now? £100 per week? And made to feel a scumbag beggar for claiming it. No 80% of salary, or grants and loans which will never be paid back.

I have great sympathy for, and understanding why, those who argue lockdown should be lifted.

[Little John]

What concerns me the most, in fact, is a second wave in the coming winter involving a new, more deadly strain that takes down the young and fit as well as the elderly and co-morbid. Just like 1918. In 1918, those who were able to recover without problems from the second strain tended to be those who had caught and recovered from the first, less lethal strain because it afforded them a partial immunity to the second strain. The majority of those who succumbed to the second strain had not been exposed to the first strain and so had no such partial immunity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu

Deadly second wave

The second wave of the 1918 pandemic was much more deadly than the first. The first wave had resembled typical flu epidemics; those most at risk were the sick and elderly, while younger, healthier people recovered easily. By August, when the second wave began in France, Sierra Leone, and the United States, the virus had mutated to a much more deadly form. October 1918 was the month with the highest fatality rate of the whole pandemic.

This increased severity has been attributed to the circumstances of the First World War. In civilian life, natural selection favors a mild strain. Those who get very ill stay home, and those mildly ill continue with their lives, preferentially spreading the mild strain. In the trenches, natural selection was reversed. Soldiers with a mild strain stayed where they were, while the severely ill were sent on crowded trains to crowded field hospitals, spreading the deadlier virus. The second wave began, and the flu quickly spread around the world again. Consequently, during modern pandemics, health officials pay attention when the virus reaches places with social upheaval (looking for deadlier strains of the virus).

The fact that most of those who recovered from first-wave infections had become immune showed that it must have been the same strain of flu. This was most dramatically illustrated in Copenhagen, which escaped with a combined mortality rate of just 0.29% (0.02% in the first wave and 0.27% in the second wave) because of exposure to the less-lethal first wave. For the rest of the population, the second wave was far more deadly; the most vulnerable people were those like the soldiers in the trenches – adults who were young and fit.

[stumuz1]

Here's a good summary:

Covid-19: Beware the gaslighting
https://medium.com/@AlexHeffron88/covid ... afba46a688

My word!

What a momentum fueled pile of old horlicks.

[clv101]

Here's a good summary:

Covid-19: Beware the gaslighting
https://medium.com/@AlexHeffron88/covid ... afba46a688

My word!

What a momentum fueled pile of old horlicks.

I post as a counter point to some of LJ's articles, call it balance!

[clv101]

What concerns me the most, in fact, is a second wave in the coming winter involving a new, more deadly strain that takes down the young and fit as well as the elderly and co-morbid...

It's a convenient hypothesis for those looking to justify loosening lockdown sooner rather than later, but I'm not aware of any specific evidence to suggest that it's likely to happen.

[vtsnowedin]

I see today there were protests in London and Germany. It is not just the gun toting American deplorables.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11638154/ ... -lockdown/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... sures.html