What can we plant right now in case Covid19 disrupt our food

[vtsnowedin]

I picked up 20 pounds of seed potatoes today. That is enough to plant about 150 feet of row. Last time I grew any a few years back I put in 50 pounds and got back 2000. The Irish blight came in so I dropped it for years. Hope the blight is good and gone.

[kenneal - lagger]

I doubt that but whether it affects your crop will depend on the weather this summer.

[BritDownUnder]

You guys need one of these.
http://machinesvideo.com/the-most-power ... NnSKJQJF6g
About 1:15 is a great view giving perspective of the farmland the UK competes against.

Reminds me of that Worzels song from the 1970s.

"O I gotta brand new combine harvester and I'll give you the key."

I am surprised that no-one has invented a combine that burns a fraction of the stubble it harvests so as to generate it's own power. I bet these things are a bit thirsty on the diesel.
I went to a job interview at a sugar processing plant in Australia once and they told me there that that it takes two litres of diesel to harvest a tonne of sugar cane. I guess it is about the same as for harvesting wheat.

[vtsnowedin]

You guys need one of these.
http://machinesvideo.com/the-most-power ... NnSKJQJF6g
About 1:15 is a great view giving perspective of the farmland the UK competes against.

Reminds me of that Worzels song from the 1970s.

"O I gotta brand new combine harvester and I'll give you the key."

I am surprised that no-one has invented a combine that burns a fraction of the stubble it harvests so as to generate it's own power. I bet these things are a bit thirsty on the diesel.
I went to a job interview at a sugar processing plant in Australia once and they told me there that that it takes two litres of diesel to harvest a tonne of sugar cane. I guess it is about the same as for harvesting wheat.

Two liters per tonne? How many hours of human labor to do it by hand?
If you get into the real math the bigger the tractor or combine the better as in a big tractor can till more acres per gallon then a smaller unit and the big combine can harvest more bushels per gallon consumed then a equally well designed but smaller unit.
Of course you need fields big enough and flat enough (rock free) for the big machines to shine but there are millions of acres that meet that description.
My plowing food plots today amounted to flipping over topsoil scratched off bedrock between outcrops. What soil there is is rich and will grow a crop but never for less then what the Midwest farms can do it for so I am down to feeding my family and some deer and feeding my family could most likely be done cheaper at the supermarket but this year that is uncertain.

[adam2]

You guys need one of these.
http://machinesvideo.com/the-most-power ... NnSKJQJF6g
About 1:15 is a great view giving perspective of the farmland the UK competes against.

Reminds me of that Worzels song from the 1970s.

"O I gotta brand new combine harvester and I'll give you the key."

I am surprised that no-one has invented a combine that burns a fraction of the stubble it harvests so as to generate it's own power. I bet these things are a bit thirsty on the diesel.
I went to a job interview at a sugar processing plant in Australia once and they told me there that that it takes two litres of diesel to harvest a tonne of sugar cane. I guess it is about the same as for harvesting wheat.

I suspect that it could be done, but only by returning to steam power. Stubble could certainly be burnt in a boiler to raise steam, and steam power could replace diesel power.
There is no simple way to burn stubble in an internal combustion engine.
The main drawback of steam power is the amount of water needed.

Harvesting a large area of wheat with modern high output machinery is almost like a military operation, with every reasonable precaution taken to avoid any stoppage or breakdown that could leave the hugely expensive combine harvester lying idle even for a short time.
The grain tank on the machine is emptied into a truck in the field, without stopping the combine. Make certain that at least one spare truck is available, together with spare tyres.
Diesel fuel is supplied on the go, make certain that a spare fuel bowser is available.
Work is likely to continue day and night, make certain that all yard lights are working, with spare bulbs and fuses instantly available. Test the standby generator.
For shift working, make certain that staff for the next shift are available ON SITE, sober, properly fed, watered and rested.
I have assisted in such work simply by being available as an extra hand for contingencies. And by cooking meals for the harvest crew.

[BritDownUnder]

Yes two litres per tonne I was told. There are about 10 kWh of energy per litre of diesel and the average human can do about 1 kWh of work per day. On the face of it then 20 humans to cut the cane, remove waste and then cut the sections into one foot billets and load onto a wagon. I suspect that a human could probably cut a tonne per day and given the energy conversion efficiencies of the internal combustion engine at maybe 20% then humans are still more effective.

I think there are three possibilities for powering such equipment.
1. Steam as you said and will be heavy and slow to start up.
2. Could use a Stirling engine instead of the steam engine.
3. Gasification of the biomass and use an IC, Stirling engine or even gas turbine.
All of the above will be significantly more complicated and probably a lot heavier than diesel power.
At $27 oil this definitely wont happen. At $270 oil or unavailable oil it might. Already the factories are effectively steam powered by burning the waste biomass and I had a fascinating tour of one from the stage where the cut cane goes in to where the raw sugar comes out on the conveyor belt.

Not for nothing is the sugar harvesting season called the "campaign" in Australia. I was told informally by the engineer interviewing me that one of the main problems they have in their workforce is drug abuse and it even affects the factory performance.

A few interesting points on the economics of sugar. Raw sugar sells for 11 cents (US) per pound. Sugar has an energy content about one third that of diesel fuel. one tonne of cut cane billets can give about 200kg of sugar. So that sugar gets about US$48 for the cost of about US$2 of diesel (in Australia anyway). I was told the farmer gets 30% of the sugar cost, with the sugar mill getting the rest. So the farmer gets $14.5 for the cost of the sugar and has to spend 2$ in diesel in harvesting it - and a lot of other costs and hopefully profit too.

The energy return on energy invested on the sugar is probably pretty good and a lot better than most other foods I think.

[vtsnowedin]

Yes two litres per tonne I was told. There are about 10 kWh of energy per litre of diesel and the average human can do about 1 kWh of work per day. On the face of it then 20 humans to cut the cane, remove waste and then cut the sections into one foot billets and load onto a wagon. I suspect that a human could probably cut a tonne per day and given the energy conversion efficiencies of the internal combustion engine at maybe 20% then humans are still more effective.

Assuming you are feeding the twenty men I think your math is backwards. Twenty men working all day to do the work of two liters of diesel in about three minutes. ??. I thought they burned off the dry leaves on sugar cane before harvest, At any rate using refuse to fire a steam boiler won't cut it as there is not enough energy in an acre of the dry matter to replace the fuel content of the diesel.

[Catweazle]

Some time ago I read on this forum that one barrel of crude oil, cracked and made into fuels, can do the same work as a man working 40 hours a week for 11 years.

It sounded ridiculous to me, until I visualised how long it would take me to push my loaded panel van ( 3.5 tons ) the 35 miles that a gallon of diesel will take it. If the van had a small efficient engine that would push it at 5mph imagine how far it would go on that gallon.

Truly, oil is the worlds biggest bargain ever, such a shame we waste so much of it.

[vtsnowedin]

Some time ago I read on this forum that one barrel of crude oil, cracked and made into fuels, can do the same work as a man working 40 hours a week for 11 years.

It sounded ridiculous to me, until I visualised how long it would take me to push my loaded panel van ( 3.5 tons ) the 35 miles that a gallon of diesel will take it. If the van had a small efficient engine that would push it at 5mph imagine how far it would go on that gallon.

Truly, oil is the worlds biggest bargain ever, such a shame we waste so much of it.

Yes my take exactly.
My favorite is a liter of gas in my chainsaw blocking up firewood logs vs. two men with a cross cut saw. Second is my diesel tractor plowing up an acre in an hour compared to a team of horses and a ten hour day. The man driving the team would have walked six miles back and forth with the horses. No fat teamsters in those days.

[kenneal - lagger]

Another way of converting biomass into usable energy is to heat it in an autoclave to produce biogas and biochar. The biogas can be made into diesel and the biochar returned to the soil to sequester carbon for several hundred years at least and to stop nutrients being flushed through the soil by rain. The charcoal will hold nutrients, including nitrogen from the rain water and water, in its pores and allow soil fungi to extract them and make them available to plants. Composted plant matter in the soil is oxidised into CO2 within a few years so it is a better option to autoclave it than to compost biomass.

Modern farming has been described as the most efficient way of converting oil into food known to man. It is probably the most inefficient use of land to produce food with vegetable gardening being the most efficient.

[vtsnowedin]

Another way of converting biomass into usable energy is to heat it in an autoclave to produce biogas and biochar.
.

Using how much energy from what source to to heat the autoclave?

[kenneal - lagger]

Biomass and a proportion of the biogas produced.

[vtsnowedin]

Biomass and a proportion of the biogas produced.

You would have to show me your EROEI calculations on that one.
We had some locals tinkerers run a V8 pickup on wood gas created in a home made autoclave in the bed but they were just taking firewood from their pile and not computing the energy used to build the woodpile.

[BritDownUnder]

Yes two litres per tonne I was told. There are about 10 kWh of energy per litre of diesel and the average human can do about 1 kWh of work per day. On the face of it then 20 humans to cut the cane, remove waste and then cut the sections into one foot billets and load onto a wagon. I suspect that a human could probably cut a tonne per day and given the energy conversion efficiencies of the internal combustion engine at maybe 20% then humans are still more effective.

Assuming you are feeding the twenty men I think your math is backwards. Twenty men working all day to do the work of two liters of diesel in about three minutes. ??. I thought they burned off the dry leaves on sugar cane before harvest, At any rate using refuse to fire a steam boiler won't cut it as there is not enough energy in an acre of the dry matter to replace the fuel content of the diesel.

I think my calcs were OK but I did make the mistake of using the input energy of the diesel and the output energy of the 20 men.
After a bit of reading both humans and diesel engines are about 20% efficient converters of carbohydrate/hydrocarbon chemical energy into mechanical work.

The point I was trying to make is that rather than transporting diesel fuel long distances to power the farm machinery it would make sense to try and use the unused proportion of the biomass harvested that does not make it to food as a fuel source for the farm machinery instead of using fossil fuels.

As for burning off the leaves it is not done too much now so I was told. The guy showing me round the sugar mill was also a sugar cane farmer. The burning was meant to get rid of pests, such as venomous snakes, as well as making the cane easier to harvest as it got rid of razor sharp leaves that would hamper the harvesting when it was done manually. The 'trash' left behind on the fields is also better for regenerating the soil than ash apparently.

I think you are spot on that a large farm machine can do the work of 20 men can do in a day in just a few minutes. Assuming the average human can do about one quarter of a horsepower of work continually and the power of a combine may be 500 horsepower I think you are quite correct there.

For me the economics are the real worrying fact. The price of sugar is quite volatile and so is the price of diesel. Already with relatively low fuel costs the cost of the diesel to just do the harvest is around 15% of total farm income.

[vtsnowedin]

You are right that the "trash" is better left on the fields as it fights erosion in the off season and decomposes beneficially to the soil. If you strip that extra tonnage off and burn it that would deplete the soil carbon and nutrient inventory. Better to just haul away the finished grain or other crop and return the rest to the microbes.
If we had no diesel or gas there would only be enough food for about three billion people and the other four billion would starve to death. Perhaps we will develop battery powered tillage and harvesting machinery that can be charged from a solar PV grid but that will take time as that is more difficult then a light personal automobile.