New coronavirus in/from China

[Vortex2]

Japanese region has second wave after initial success

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52305055

[vtsnowedin]

UE's post about opening the real essential services first has merit and spot on except at the end he says maybe open up a" bit more." No a lot more, as much as we can stand, is what is needed.

What is wrong with starting with a bit, and waiting to see how fast the virus spreads?

Every day is destructive. That daily cost has to be recognized and minimized as much and as soon as possible. We can't sit locked down while bureaucrats collect and massage the figures waiting for opinion polls to tell them what to do.

[vtsnowedin]

UE's post about opening the real essential services first has merit and spot on except at the end he says maybe open up a" bit more." No a lot more, as much as we can stand, is what is needed.

What is wrong with starting with a bit, and waiting to see how fast the virus spreads?

As I have noted before, I suspect that we will end up with a 'leaky lockdown' rather than a difficult to manage series of total lockdowns.

A slightly looser lockdown, with a fair few infringers.

By closing cinemas and restaurants we can throttle the spread of the virus.

Perhaps slow it down a bit.

Lots of little tricks can be used to control the spread : fast food places open only two days a week, possibly takeaway only.

What business could make a profit only working two days a week?

Transport service running only four days a week etc.

And what do people do for the other three days? Not go to work?

[Vortex2]

What is wrong with starting with a bit, and waiting to see how fast the virus spreads?

As I have noted before, I suspect that we will end up with a 'leaky lockdown' rather than a difficult to manage series of total lockdowns.

A slightly looser lockdown, with a fair few infringers.

By closing cinemas and restaurants we can throttle the spread of the virus.

Perhaps slow it down a bit.

Lots of little tricks can be used to control the spread : fast food places open only two days a week, possibly takeaway only.

What business could make a profit only working two days a week?

Transport service running only four days a week etc.

And what do people do for the other three days? Not go to work?

You are trying to square the circle.

This is not a patch of snowy weather : it's a pandemic.

There is a downside to everything we do.

Firms will fail, people will die - we are simply adjusting the mix.

There might be an optimal solution : if we all carried Smartphones with apps, if central gov. could handle the data flows, if people played ball, then maybe we could optimise everything in real time.

However with the current UK govt & population it won't happen.

Whatever the UK does it will be loused up.

[vtsnowedin]

There might be an optimal solution :

Pretty sure the current policy is not that .

Whatever the UK does it will be loused up.

Sadly true.

[Little John]

UE's post about opening the real essential services first has merit and spot on except at the end he says maybe open up a" bit more." No a lot more, as much as we can stand, is what is needed.

What is wrong with starting with a bit, and waiting to see how fast the virus spreads?

Every day is destructive. That daily cost has to be recognized and minimized as much and as soon as possible. We can't sit locked down while bureaucrats collect and massage the figures waiting for opinion polls to tell them what to do.

And that is where we are at in the West. A ruling class of spinless, wannabe machiavellian incompetents.

[fuzzy]

I agree we need to get back to life, but this is the govs vibration white finger moment. The NHS has told 5 million they are risk of severe illness. What are 2 million workers [-100000 home workers] going to do when jobs return? Wouldn't it be wise to tell us? The gov will have the civil service trying to sabotage everything. Hopefully they can soon get back to sweeping them out:

https://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2020/04/21 ... n-co-gone/

[Mark]

Passengers and staff at Manchester Airport will have to wear gloves and masks - and bosses are trialling temperature scanners - as stricter measures are brought in:
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... e-18191161

The measures, says Charlie Cornish, Group CEO of Manchester Airports Group, have been drawn up following consultation with medical experts and in the absence of official guidance from the government. It comes amid calls from across the industry for Whitehall to set a framework for minimum standards for all UK airports to adhere to.

Charlie Cornish said: "Government has been slow to work with the UK aviation industry on what flying will look like in the new world. "It is vital that we work together to establish a clear and workable set of proposals, so that we are in position to lead discussions with other countries. "It’s clear that social distancing does not work on any form of public transport. But we’re confident that when the time is right, people will be able to travel safely. "UK airports have put a package of measures on the table for discussion with Government. We now need the Government to work urgently with airports and airlines to agree how we operate in the future. This has to be a top priority so that people can be confident about flying, and to get tourism and travel going again. The move comes as passenger numbers at Manchester Airport plummet from 80,000 a day to around 500.

[Mark]

Goose stepping, lock-down cheerleaders....

And once again civil discussion is binned. I'm out.

No comment on this LJ ?
Or are you happy that you've silenced another poster ?
This is exactly the approach that you took on the Brexit thread - anybody with an opposing view to yours is hounded and intimidated.....
This forum only works if we all accept the viewpoints of others ?
And any counter arguments are presented in a civil manner ?

Remember, your own views have significantly changed over the course of this thread....

[boisdevie]

Lockdown may end soon?
Just out of curiousity following something I heard I checked the National Rail site. I selected a journey for tomorrow from Lancaster to Barrow - it was the Sunday timetable. The I edited the details for the same journey on 19 May - normal timetable!
Does this mean the lockdown will be changed before 19 May? Interesting.

[Vortex2]

Goose stepping, lock-down cheerleaders....

And once again civil discussion is binned. I'm out.

No comment on this LJ ?
Or are you happy that you've silenced another poster ?
This is exactly the approach that you took on the Brexit thread - anybody with an opposing view to yours is hounded and intimidated.....
This forum only works if we all accept the viewpoints of others ?
And any counter arguments are presented in a civil manner ?

Remember, your own views have significantly changed over the course of this thread....

The giveaway for me was when LJ refused to show interest in the measures/situations in foreign countries.

Sign of a closed mind full of opinions but with no real interest in looking at data etc.

He is also insufferably rude - not a pleasant character trait.

[boisdevie]

The giveaway for me was when LJ refused to show interest in the measures/situations in foreign countries.

Sign of a closed mind full of opinions but with no real interest in looking at data etc.

He is also insufferably rude - not a pleasant character trait.

I wonder if LJ has also said anything nasty such as "The ones 'getting on with life' will be killing others." Remember saying that? Accusing someone of being rude is one thing but accusing people of being responsible for 'killing others' is quite something don't you think?

[Mark]

Lockdown may end soon?
Just out of curiousity following something I heard I checked the National Rail site. I selected a journey for tomorrow from Lancaster to Barrow - it was the Sunday timetable. The I edited the details for the same journey on 19 May - normal timetable!
Does this mean the lockdown will be changed before 19 May? Interesting.

The next official review is 7th May.
But Boris has said that it must last until June ?
Maybe partially influenced by his own very personal experience ?

From what I can see, the lock-down is gradually weakening naturally…
Suspect HMG will have to partially lift it fairly soon, as events will start to overtake them…, and people are watching Spain and Germany...

Current Policy is to go by the '5 tests':
Test one: The NHS has the capacity to provide critical care right across the UK - appears to have been met ?
Test two: A sustained and consistent fall in daily deaths from coronavirus - more data needed to be clear ?
Test three: The rate of infection decreased to manageable levels across the board - the rate of infection has decreased enough ?
Test four: Operational challenges including testing and PPE are in hand, with supply able to meet future demand - hasn't been met ?
Test five: Confident that any adjustments to the current measures will not risk a second peak of infections that overwhelms the NHS - difficult to judge ?

They also seem to be waiting for the testing and the track/trace follow-up to be working correctly....?
Goes without saying, they should have got all this sorted much earlier....

[clv101]

... as events will start to overtake them…

Why change a winning strategy! They have been chasing reality on the ground from the start. Airlines unilaterally stopped flying, parents unilaterally pulled kids from school, conferences were cancelled unilaterally etc. all in advance of government statements.

[vtsnowedin]

Test number five is impossible to meet on the face of it and was obviously added to give the government an escape from making any move.