New coronavirus in/from China

[Little John]

LJ are you still working? How are you finding it?

It is surreal that lots of us are being paid something to DIY like me, and others are risking their rses daily. On the other hand, the NHS thinks I should be locking myself in a cupboard like 5 million others, so what happens if my employer restarts?

What situation are other members in?

I am a care worker and am working full time on minimum wage for elderly clients who are also mentally handicapped. My wife is also working full time as a health care assistant on not much more than minimum wage in a major UK hospital.

[UndercoverElephant]

Around 80% of people get this virus and recover relatively unproblematically

We do not know that for sure. We do not know whether there are any long-term health problems, even for people who appear to have recovered. We cannot possibly know.

The "we do not know whether there are any long term health problems" is an empty talking point. You may as well say "we don't know any number of other unknowns" on any number of topics.

You made it a talking point by claiming something that contradicts it. You literally claimed we know something that we simply do not know. You are wrongly claiming certainty about something that cannot be known.

I have to say it again: this virus is not just a new virus, but has a completely new way of breaking into human cells. We should expect the unexpected, and be very wary of coming to hasty conclusions about what it does and doesn't do.

But, what we do know is what is most likely and act accordingly instead of what we are doing, which is acting like rabbits in the headlights. Which is likely to produce a similar outcome to that which befalls the rabbit.

The government needs to have a viable exit strategy from the current situation, and needs communicate it clearly and very soon. Until it does so, it will look like a rabbit in the headlights, even if it isn't. Their record so far justifies skepticism that they have agreed on a viable exit strategy at this point.

[UndercoverElephant]

Doctors who dissent are now being silenced

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPrbGU0 ... e=youtu.be

Fox News? Seriously?

Now, I know you are bullshitting. That report linked to two entirely credible California doctors. But, instead of critiquing what those doctors had to say, you have elected, instead, to shoot the messenger.

Pathetic.

What is really pathetic is Fox News. Sorry, but that is a media outlet run by people who will say anything that the US right wants to hear. I am not interested in anything at all it broadcasts. I do not trust it to be impartial, and I do not trust any person it interviews unless I know who they are and can judge their credibility myself.

[kenneal - lagger]

LJ, you are not listening and have a fixed position. You are claiming that the death and hospitalization rates would be the same for an unattenuated outbreak as they would be for the attenuated outbreak we are seeing. The evidence for the death rate in Spain and Italy certainly don't support that contention.

I was talking to a friend who has just recovered from the virus and he said that he would'nt want to see anyone else get the virus and that the restrictions should be kept in place for as long as necessary. It is not something to be wished upon anyone else just for the sake of money. Also the longer we get away from the old way of doing things the easier it will be to address the climate crisis as people realize that working their butts off for peanuts is not the be all and end all of life.

[kenneal - lagger]

Here is an American version of my current position. Divide by five for UK numbers.

To make this simple and clear.
It would be better to endure the loss of five or even ten million people in the USA to Covid-19 then to destroy the jobs of fifty million Americans and their families throwing them into poverty and dependent on the government which would no longer have the means to support them.

So you are advocating that we should allow five to ten million Americans to die and then we should throw their families into poverty?

[vtsnowedin]

Here is an American version of my current position. Divide by five for UK numbers.

To make this simple and clear.
It would be better to endure the loss of five or even ten million people in the USA to Covid-19 then to destroy the jobs of fifty million Americans and their families throwing them into poverty and dependent on the government which would no longer have the means to support them.

So you are advocating that we should allow five to ten million Americans to die and then we should throw their families into poverty?

Of course not. it is a choice between one or the other not both. But if an inept government has it's way we may well fail at saving the millions of potential deaths and also wipe out the economy by trying to save some of them.

[Little John]

LJ, you are not listening and have a fixed position. You are claiming that the death and hospitalization rates would be the same for an unattenuated outbreak as they would be for the attenuated outbreak we are seeing. The evidence for the death rate in Spain and Italy certainly don't support that contention.

Stop pretending that what I have suggested is an "unnatenuated outbreak" as a means of setting up a false dichotomy in terms of what you are supporting, which is a total lock down . In what way, precisely, is locking down the elderly and comorbid, "unattenuated"? You do know what the word means, right?

I was talking to a friend who has just recovered from the virus and he said that he would'nt want to see anyone else get the virus and that the restrictions should be kept in place for as long as necessary. It is not something to be wished upon anyone else just for the sake of money.

Stop using emotive anecdotes to obscure the broader facts. Such anecdotes change nothing in terms of what we know is the overwhelming demographic of cases.

Also the longer we get away from the old way of doing things the easier it will be to address the climate crisis as people realize that working their butts off for peanuts is not the be all and end all of life.

Stop using emotive, broader, ideological issues that are currently in the zeitgeist as a cover for not addressing the specific logistical issues of this. Next you'll be telling us that we should continue the total lock-down because its what Greta would want.

[Vortex2]

Could there be something we haven't been told?

The Chinese reaction and the later global reaction to COVID-19 seem very aggressive.

I don't normally wear a tinfoil hat ... but is there something about this virus we don't know?

[vtsnowedin]

I don't normally wear a tinfoil hat ... but is there something about this virus we don't know?

Such as?

[Vortex2]

I don't normally wear a tinfoil hat ... but is there something about this virus we don't know?

Such as?

If I knew what I don't know I wouldn't be asking if there is something I don't know.

[stumuz1]

Chris smells something 'iffy

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... gins-china

[Catweazle]

Could there be something we haven't been told?

The Chinese reaction and the later global reaction to COVID-19 seem very aggressive.

I don't normally wear a tinfoil hat ... but is there something about this virus we don't know?

That's how I feel, that there is something driving things that I'm not privy to.

Not just me then.

[Mark]

Chris smells something 'iffy

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... gins-china

On Wednesday Britain’s ambassador to the US, Karen Pierce, backed calls by the US and Australia for an inquiry, but said containing the outbreak was the first priority and such inquiries would come later. It came after the UK foreign affairs parliamentary committee asked the government whether it planned to “hold China accountable� by making representations at gatherings of WHO, G7, or G20 members.

Ideally, any inquiry should be held by the WHO ?
Think I'm correct in saying that the WHO has previously praised China for the way it has dealt with the virus and the information provided (?)
Could pose problems for the US, now they've pulled out of the WHO ?
If this happens, I'm sure they'd want to be represented....

[Snail]

In the worldometer list of countries, from India downwards the numbers are TINY.

I'm beginning to think China has, through misdirection, made it seem worse than it has been. Economic warfare on western countries which have fallen for it hook line and sinker.

There was no reason for India to have taken the stance it did for eg. None. Apart from their leader using it as a viagra alternative.

Scotland could probably track and trace right now, the numbers are that low. Why were so many hospital appointments etc cancelled?

But I'm enjoying lockdown even though my income this summer's been destroyed (no free money for cashinhand workers). So I wont be venturing out for a while anyway. Just in case.

[kenneal - lagger]

Here is an American version of my current position. Divide by five for UK numbers.

So you are advocating that we should allow five to ten million Americans to die and then we should throw their families into poverty?

Of course not. it is a choice between one or the other not both. But if an inept government has it's way we may well fail at saving the millions of potential deaths and also wipe out the economy by trying to save some of them.

The use of the word "then" rather than the word "than" implies that there is a sequence involved; first one action "then" another action instead of one action rather "than" another action. That statement says the opposite of what it means to say. Then and than are two different words and the misuse of them can make a sentence mean the opposite of what you want to say.