Discharging grey water to stream/Emergency NHS camping

[adam2]

In the case to which I refer, a soakaway for grey water has been built and works fine, even if not strictly legal they would hope to getaway with it in the present emergency.
Toilet waste does not go the soakaway, portable toilets have been hired and disposal of the contents is the responsibility of the company from which these are hired.

[stumuz1]

I've just read this thread.

You need an environmental permit to discharge waste water to a river in England and Wales.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/20 ... 3/contents

The offences for discharge without a permit are:

Regulations 38(1) and 12(1). Environmental Permitting (England and Wales) Regulations 2010:

Still available but not as much used as the permitting regs are, section 85 of the Water Resources Act 1991.

There are some very limited exemptions to the regs, but to take advantage of them you must register with the Environment agency before discharge so they can inspect.

It's a strict liability offence, so no effective defence.

Even septic tanks now need a permit.

https://www.gov.uk/permits-you-need-for-septic-tanks

Just a heads up for your friend.

[kenneal - lagger]

..............And of course in these stressful economic times the cost of these upgrades will be born completely by HMG?

No one is building at the moment so that's not a problem for HMG.

My suggestion for a soakaway was for one 150 to 200 below ground level so that the grey water is treated by soil bacteria which take the nutrients out of the effluent making them available for plant roots leaving clean water available to the plants or to join the ground water supply. Putting it deep as you/they have done means that a residue of pollution is left behind as the water filters through the soil to join the ground water.

[adam2]

..............And of course in these stressful economic times the cost of these upgrades will be born completely by HMG?

No one is building at the moment so that's not a problem for HMG.

My suggestion for a soakaway was for one 150 to 200 below ground level so that the grey water is treated by soil bacteria which take the nutrients out of the effluent making them available for plant roots leaving clean water available to the plants or to join the ground water supply. Putting it deep as you/they have done means that a residue of pollution is left behind as the water filters through the soil to join the ground water.

There was an apparently incorrect view, that deeper=better.
Would it be worth making a new soakaway at the suggested depth ? Looks easy enough.

[kenneal - lagger]

Yes, especially if there are plants which can take advantage of the nutrients and water made available.

[adam2]

Yes, especially if there are plants which can take advantage of the nutrients and water made available.

Done, and shrubs planted as the basis for a new hedgerow.

[vtsnowedin]

There is a seasonal aspect to soakaways as you call them. In the summer months much of the water discharged evaporates through the surface directly or is taken up by the plant roots of the grass or other plants above the pipes and the plants benefit from both the water and the nutrients it contains. We had a humorist that wrote a book titled "The grass is always greener over the septic tank" which was an accurate observation. In the winter when plants are dormant and air and water temperatures average below 40 degrees F the growth of bacteria is greatly reduced and more of the water percolates down through the filter bed and may even reach a stream little changed from what left the far end of the septic tank but it is of little consequence as the stream is also below 40F and nobody is swimming in it. The fish don't seem to mind and may actually benefit by having their food sources well nourished.

[kenneal - lagger]

True but I doubt that there will be many people camping over winter.

[emordnilap]

Also septic tanks are now illegal!

If you are in a rural area not served by municipal sewer lines what is your alternative?

We've used a 'dry' (i.e. humanure) toilet since 2008. Much less trouble than any septic tank or municipal system. Cheaper, little work, good compost at the end of two years, or faster if you use it just around fruit trees etc.

Grey water goes to a very big, very good soakaway. Apple trees around take advantage of the water. Every situation is different of course but there's often a simple answer somewhere.

[vtsnowedin]

Also septic tanks are now illegal!

If you are in a rural area not served by municipal sewer lines what is your alternative?

We've used a 'dry' (i.e. humanure) toilet since 2008. Much less trouble than any septic tank or municipal system. Cheaper, little work, good compost at the end of two years, or faster if you use it just around fruit trees etc.

Grey water goes to a very big, very good soakaway. Apple trees around take advantage of the water. Every situation is different of course but there's often a simple answer somewhere.

There is no one size fits all answer as soils and conditions vary. A law outlawing septic tanks is stupid on the face of it as they work quite well on many sites.
One town with high ground water levels installed a system where every customer had a tank at the property line owned by the town and the effluent was collected in pipes smaller in size then typical pipes designed for raw sewage that was then pumped to a treatment plant on higher and dryer ground for treatment and eventually discharged into a ultra large filter bed constructed in an old gravel pit. It has been working well for them for twenty years now.

[adam2]

Owing to the ongoing pandemic concerns, this "campsite" remains in use during rather colder weather.
A large and ungreen diesel generator has been hired to supply the very considerable electric heating demand, 75 KVA.
A lot of propane being used also.

Grey water now being pumped into a holding tank, and then discharged directly into the sea, not via the stream. Soakaway no good in present conditions as water table is at ground level.

[BritDownUnder]

They are certainly getting through the power, and presumably fossil fuels there. Perhaps wood heating could be suggested on 'environmental grounds'. Something like this thing available in Australia.

I am not sure the 'man from the council' will like things going into the sea but I am no expert.

[adam2]

The challenge was indoor heating of caravans, motorhomes and a couple of large tents. The only safe and simple way to achieve this is by electricity.
The fuel use and carbon emmisions of the generator are regretable, but justified in the present emergency.
A tumble dryer is a significant load, and the only realistic way to dry laundry in a caravan and in cold wet weather.

The generator produces much better qaulity power than the previous arrangements.

[kenneal - lagger]

What about using the waste heat from the genny? You could dry quite a few loads of washing with that or heat the water for the washing. Even putting an air sourced heat pump in the cooling air from the genny would make a big difference.

[BritDownUnder]

I suppose they could get a heat pump tumble dryer if they are financially able. I have one myself and not only do they collect all their water, so no damp hot air produced they do produce some heat themselves which could heat an area. Some kind of air to air heat exchanger may be used with the generator perhaps, even using the radiator on the generator as the heat source. Or the heat pump idea but I am no expert on how they can be set up.

Even some form of extra insulation on or in caravans which are probably poorly insulated to begin with.

Must be a terrible life to be working for the NHS during the pandemic and then go home to a caravan.