What is the new normal?

[BritDownUnder]

I don't think there will be more environmental awareness in the short term but fossil fuel consumption seems to be currently on a downward track so that may be good for the environment. I expect less unnecessary consumption, a lot less travel and a lot more DIY and gardening. Let's hope some good things come out of it. I would expect Australia probably remains closed to non-citizens for the remainder of 2020 and maybe some kind of quota system after that. I would say that overseas tourism here is dead and buried.

I am actually quite optimistic about the future right now.

I am as well. I think you have most of that right with the exception of tourism to Australia. There is (or was) a lot of money to be made there and I expect they will find ways to do it safely to get the cash flowing again. the European countries also had significant chunks of their economies supported by tourism and will be pressed to resume as soon as possible.

From what I can find tourism is 8% of foreign earnings. So quite significant but not worth destroying the rest of the economy for.

[Little John]

]people have to work.

Yes but not every day or when sick. I expect employers to make policy adjustments that keep their work places safe.

It is employers not making those adjustments that is the reason people have to work when they are ill. If those adjustments are made, people will not have to work when ill. At which point, you can bet they will elect not to. The problem has never been the workers. Indeed, it has not even been the majority of employers. Most employers simply have to play the game with the cards they are dealt.

If there are no legally enforceable regulations in place stopping employers taking the piss out of workers as a consequence of either fear or greed, then all it takes is one or two employers to do so and the rest of the employers must fall in line or become uncompetitive.

This is a systemic problem and always has been.

[vtsnowedin]

I don't think there will be more environmental awareness in the short term but fossil fuel consumption seems to be currently on a downward track so that may be good for the environment. I expect less unnecessary consumption, a lot less travel and a lot more DIY and gardening. Let's hope some good things come out of it. I would expect Australia probably remains closed to non-citizens for the remainder of 2020 and maybe some kind of quota system after that. I would say that overseas tourism here is dead and buried.

I am actually quite optimistic about the future right now.

I am as well. I think you have most of that right with the exception of tourism to Australia. There is (or was) a lot of money to be made there and I expect they will find ways to do it safely to get the cash flowing again. the European countries also had significant chunks of their economies supported by tourism and will be pressed to resume as soon as possible.

From what I can find tourism is 8% of foreign earnings. So quite significant but not worth destroying the rest of the economy for.

Hence the need to only do it safely.

[vtsnowedin]

]people have to work.

Yes but not every day or when sick. I expect employers to make policy adjustments that keep their work places safe.

It is employers not making those adjustments that is the reason people have to work when they are ill. If those adjustments are made, people will not have to work when ill. At which point, you can bet they will elect not to. The problem has never been the workers. Indeed, it has not even been the majority of employers. Most employers simply have to play the game with the cards they are dealt.

If there are no legally enforceable regulations in place stopping employers taking the piss out of workers as a consequence of either fear or greed, then all it takes is one or two employers to do so and the rest of the employers must fall in line or become uncompetitive.

This is a systemic problem and always has been.

Yes an old and persistent problem but now a reevaluation of practice is in order. Before a worker muddling through while sick might give his cold or flue to other workers and customers who also muddled through not quite knowing who to blame and no real harm done in most cases. It was worth the risks to the employer to press people to come in while sick as the employer's risks were quite low. Now the risks is much higher as having one case come in and spread to another worker or heaven forbid a customer will get your business totally shut down and you safety reputation shot. Times have changed and just doing things the old way will not do.

[kenneal - lagger]

I don't think any preppers on this forum want, or expect, the world to end but the world we used to know was unsustainable on both an economic and environmental basis and was on its way to collapse in the next few decades either from economic forces or environmental or a combination.

"The world we used to know..?"

Now THAT sounds as close to a Trumpism as you can get without saying "Make America Great Again!".

Are you familiar with psychology of doom Ken? The commonalities that an outsider may have noticed, categorized, and quantified after 15 years of interactions with them?

You do like putting words into other peoples' mouths don't you, RGR.

Yes, I am saying that globalism should die and yes Trump is saying that globalism should be reduced so that work is bought back to the US but the thought behind that is that the US should go back to its position of world supplier of all things, built on its position as a major energy supplier to the world. He is saying that America should go back to its position forty, fifty or even sixty years go

"Make America Great Again" means America supplying the world with everything while the America takes little from the world. The world would be open to America while America would be closed to most things from the rest of the world; Globalism for America but America closed to the world. That is the last thing that I am suggesting.

I am saying that we shouldn't go back to mass production of a load of crap that last six months and then is thrown away, that we shouldn't go back to driving for miles to sell something which could well be sold in a phone call; we should be growing some of our own food when we can and we should have the time to do it; we should be insulating our homes so that we use far less energy; our whole way of life has been called into question and we should look at that question and come up with a new answer not one that looks back at all, let alone fifty or sixty years.

[kenneal - lagger]

...... Yes an old and persistent problem but now a reevaluation of practice is in order. Before a worker muddling through while sick might give his cold or flue to other workers and customers who also muddled through not quite knowing who to blame and no real harm done in most cases. It was worth the risks to the employer to press people to come in while sick as the employer's risks were quite low. Now the risks is much higher as having one case come in and spread to another worker or heaven forbid a customer will get your business totally shut down and you safety reputation shot. Times have changed and just doing things the old way will not do.

You sound a if you are turning Democrat, VT, or even, god forbid, a little socialist!!

You'll be voting for Bernie if you carry on like that.

[fuzzy]

So how will dentists work?

[boisdevie]

So how will dentists work?

And waxing salons?

[adam2]

So how will dentists work?

And waxing salons?

Dentists could work with suitable protective equipment, I suspect that purely cosmetic dental treatment will decline.

Waxing salons ditto, they are not exactly essential though and will hopefully fall out of favour.

[ReserveGrowthRulz]

So how will dentists work?

Very carefully.

[vtsnowedin]

...... Yes an old and persistent problem but now a reevaluation of practice is in order. Before a worker muddling through while sick might give his cold or flue to other workers and customers who also muddled through not quite knowing who to blame and no real harm done in most cases. It was worth the risks to the employer to press people to come in while sick as the employer's risks were quite low. Now the risks is much higher as having one case come in and spread to another worker or heaven forbid a customer will get your business totally shut down and you safety reputation shot. Times have changed and just doing things the old way will not do.

You sound a if you are turning Democrat, VT, or even, god forbid, a little socialist!!

You'll be voting for Bernie if you carry on like that.

There is nothing socialist about a capitalist reassessing risks vs. rewards while making business decisions with new information or market conditions.
I'd vote for Bernie over Biden but will not get that choice. Remember I did not vote for Trump.