New coronavirus in/from China

Mean Mr Mustard II · Post by **Mean Mr Mustard II** » 21 Apr 2020, 19:22

Little John wrote:
Vortex2 wrote:COVID-19 denier activist dies of ... you guessed it ...

https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/21/anti-loc ... -12588467/
So what?

What deep insight does this provide us?

That, possibly, Karma is a bitch?

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 21 Apr 2020, 19:31

Who cares what some silly bugger thought.

What vortex is doing with that post is trying to conflate anyone who questions any of the narrative he favours with being a "denier". It's bollocks.

Mean Mr Mustard II · Post by **Mean Mr Mustard II** » 21 Apr 2020, 19:40

Expecting to see more of the same sad irony (is that pathos?) in the Dallas / Fort Worth area, and wherever else lockdown protesters have mindlessly closely congregated.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 21 Apr 2020, 19:42

Mean Mr Mustard II wrote:Expecting to see more of the same sad irony (is that pathos?) in the Dallas / Fort Worth area, and wherever else lockdown protesters have mindlessly closely congregated.

These people live in a country that has no safety net. If they can't get out and be active economic agents in the economy, they lose their homes, they can't pay for medicine, they starve. What do you expect them to do?

fuzzy · Post by **fuzzy** » 21 Apr 2020, 19:49

Little John wrote:I've just had a conversation with my sister. She is a paraplegic and is completely isolated at home with her husband who is retired. Luckily, they have a decent sized house and garden near Redcar so conditions could be worse for her. Additionally, my Dad, who is 88, is locked down in his pensioner's bungalow in Redcar and he is properly pissed off.

Anyway, both my sister and me agreed it would be better for the vulnerable and elderly if this thing was just allowed to take its course so long as the vulnerable and elderly were provided full support to remain locked down while it did so. Meanwhile, everyone else could get out to work and keep the economy alive. If that happened, the damn thing would be over and done with in about 2 months. As it is, it is going to drag on for anything up to a couple of years. Which, in addition to completely destroying our economy, also puts the vulnerable and elderly at risk (albeit a lower one) for a much longer period than if it was allowed to take its course.

I can't see more than another 3 weeks. Do you have any knowledge or thoughts about those advised to stay in by the NHS letters, who then have to go back to work - see post above? I guess there are some people in care who dropped out because of the advice. How are their employers behaving? I only work part time and the risk is moderate. I will go back as required.

Vortex2 · Post by **Vortex2** » 21 Apr 2020, 19:56

Mean Mr Mustard II wrote:
Little John wrote:
Vortex2 wrote:COVID-19 denier activist dies of ... you guessed it ...

https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/21/anti-loc ... -12588467/
So what?

What deep insight does this provide us?
That, possibly, Karma is a bitch?

Exactly!

Mean Mr Mustard II · Post by **Mean Mr Mustard II** » 21 Apr 2020, 19:57

Little John wrote:
Mean Mr Mustard II wrote:Expecting to see more of the same sad irony (is that pathos?) in the Dallas / Fort Worth area, and wherever else lockdown protesters have mindlessly closely congregated.
These people live in a country that has no safety net. If they can't get out and be active economic agents in the economy, they lose their homes, they can't pay for medicine, they starve. What do you expect them to do?

Protesting all six feet apart, with face masks would be a good start. A disciplined well thought out formation would get their point across while keeping themselves relatively safe. If the lockdown release isn't carefully managed in stages, they, like us, are stuffed regardless.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 21 Apr 2020, 20:48

Little John wrote:I've just had a conversation with my sister. She is a paraplegic and is completely isolated at home with her husband who is retired. Luckily, they have a decent sized house and garden near Redcar so conditions could be worse for her. Additionally, my Dad, who is 88, is locked down in his pensioner's bungalow in Redcar and he is properly pissed off.

Anyway, both my sister and me agreed it would be better for the vulnerable and elderly if this thing was just allowed to take its course so long as the vulnerable and elderly were provided full support to remain locked down while it did so. Meanwhile, everyone else could get out to work and keep the economy alive. If that happened, the damn thing would be over and done with in about 2 months. As it is, it is going to drag on for anything up to a couple of years. Which, in addition to completely destroying our economy, also puts the vulnerable and elderly at risk (albeit a lower one) for a much longer period than if it was allowed to take its course.

ok

And what about the poor bastards in the NHS who would be lumbered with picking up the pieces? Their workload has been bad enough as it is without having untold numbers from an uncontrolled outbreak to deal with.

Vortex2 · Post by **Vortex2** » 21 Apr 2020, 20:58

Is Sweden about to implode/explode?

I think that Tom Britton, a mathematics professor from Stockholm University, is saying that because of lack of a lock down and with the high R value of the virus, Sweden is about to experience the 'wildfire' phase of the infection.

If millions do become infected within the next few weeks then their hospitals will become rather busy.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... warns.html

I'm not sure if this ties in with https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... ry/sweden/ ... but we will see soon enough.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 21 Apr 2020, 20:58

kenneal - lagger wrote:
Little John wrote:I've just had a conversation with my sister. She is a paraplegic and is completely isolated at home with her husband who is retired. Luckily, they have a decent sized house and garden near Redcar so conditions could be worse for her. Additionally, my Dad, who is 88, is locked down in his pensioner's bungalow in Redcar and he is properly pissed off.

Anyway, both my sister and me agreed it would be better for the vulnerable and elderly if this thing was just allowed to take its course so long as the vulnerable and elderly were provided full support to remain locked down while it did so. Meanwhile, everyone else could get out to work and keep the economy alive. If that happened, the damn thing would be over and done with in about 2 months. As it is, it is going to drag on for anything up to a couple of years. Which, in addition to completely destroying our economy, also puts the vulnerable and elderly at risk (albeit a lower one) for a much longer period than if it was allowed to take its course.
ok

And what about the poor bastards in the NHS who would be lumbered with picking up the pieces? Their workload has been bad enough as it is without having untold numbers from an uncontrolled outbreak to deal with.

Have you actually looked at the numbers of those who have died of Covid 19?

Clearly not

They have been overwhelmingly in the over 70s and those who are younger with comorbidities. Which means the overwhelming majority of those in the medical system will be the elderly or younger with comorbidities.

Did you actually read what I wrote in the post to which you have responded?

Clearly not.

What I wrote was that the elderly and vulnerable (those with comorbidities) should be fully funded and supported to be locked down, while the rest of the population... you know... all of those people who are NOT represented in the hospital numbers or deaths.... should go out and carry on with their lives and, in doing so, keep the economy afloat

All of which would lead to the majority of the population achieving immunity in around two months and, in doing so provide herd immunity protection for those who were locked down - thus allowing them to come back out into the world.

This government acted too late, which caused the hospitals to be filled with the elderly and vulnerable dying of Covid-19. Then, has massively overacted by way of compensation, leading to a complete lockdown and halting of the necessary process of achieving herd immunity in those people who are young enough and fit enough to be exposed to the virus.

Vortex2 · Post by **Vortex2** » 21 Apr 2020, 21:03

Little John wrote:
kenneal - lagger wrote:
Little John wrote:I've just had a conversation with my sister. She is a paraplegic and is completely isolated at home with her husband who is retired. Luckily, they have a decent sized house and garden near Redcar so conditions could be worse for her. Additionally, my Dad, who is 88, is locked down in his pensioner's bungalow in Redcar and he is properly pissed off.

Anyway, both my sister and me agreed it would be better for the vulnerable and elderly if this thing was just allowed to take its course so long as the vulnerable and elderly were provided full support to remain locked down while it did so. Meanwhile, everyone else could get out to work and keep the economy alive. If that happened, the damn thing would be over and done with in about 2 months. As it is, it is going to drag on for anything up to a couple of years. Which, in addition to completely destroying our economy, also puts the vulnerable and elderly at risk (albeit a lower one) for a much longer period than if it was allowed to take its course.
ok

And what about the poor bastards in the NHS who would be lumbered with picking up the pieces? Their workload has been bad enough as it is without having untold numbers from an uncontrolled outbreak to deal with.
Have you actually looked at the numbers of those who have died.

Clearly not

They have been overwhelmingly in the over 70s and those who are younger with comorbidity. Which means the overwhelming majority of those ion hospital will be elderly or younger with commodities.

Did you actually read what I wrote in the post to which you have responded?

Clearly not.

What I wrote was that the elderly and vulnerable (those with comorbidities) should be fully funded and supported to be locked down, while the rest of the population... you know... all of those people who are NOT represented in the hospital numbers or deaths.... should go out and carry on with their lives and, in doing so, keep the economy afloat

All of which would lead to the majority of the population achieving immunity in around two months and, in doing so provide herd immunity protection for those who were locked down.

Life ain't that simple.

The virus would leak into the protected areas of the weak and old.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 21 Apr 2020, 21:14

We have no idea what would happen to the death rate if the outbreak was allowed to cut loose although when the virus really hits Africa we will probably find out.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 21 Apr 2020, 21:15

We now have more than enough data in from both the UK and the rest of the world to know roughly who the vulnerable groups are. Truth is, we had it some time ago. But, that is now by the by. On that basis, those people should be given the opportunity to be fully funded while locked down and the rest of the population should be free to get on with keeping the economy alive.

The above is now blindingly obvious and the only thing stopping it from happening is political inertia due to our various political classes having embarked upon one course of action now being too chicken shit to turn round to their populations and tell them the hard truth.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 21 Apr 2020, 21:17

kenneal - lagger wrote:We have no idea what would happen to the death rate if the outbreak was allowed to cut loose although when the virus really hits Africa we will probably find out.

No we wont. The level of comorbidities on that continent due to half of Africa having to live like shit makes any comparison limited in the extreme

boisdevie · Post by **boisdevie** » 21 Apr 2020, 21:28

Little John wrote: The above is now blindingly obvious and the only thing stopping it from happening is political inertia due to our various political classes having embarked upon one course of action now being too chicken shit to turn round to their populations and tell them the hard truth.

And they say it's the Chinese who suffer from the problems of 'saving face' - our political and media classes could really give the Chinese a masterclass. They've invested their egos so heavily they'd rather screw the economy than admit they'd got it wrong. Amoral wankers.