New coronavirus in/from China

[clv101]

We're still seeing ~800 daily hospital desths, plus lots more in the community, some four weeks after lockdown. These fatalities became infected during the first week of lockdown?

[Catweazle]

Do you have a department of Agriculture or your equivalent of one? If so they probably have yield per acre and total production figures going back to WW1 or earlier. That might be a guide to what can be done if needed. Biggest question will be what to do with all the pleasure horses now on the land.

Horses are not the biggest problem, sheep and cattle use far more land. We raise livestock because the profit ( with subsidies ) is better than trying to compete with veg imports from abroad, but that's an economic issue that might soon change.

Some land (steep slopes rough rocky etc.) is most productive grazing sheep and cattle and you can eat the beef and mutton and drink the milk or make cheese or yogurt. Buffy's show horse that has won a handful of ribbons not so much. You could ship them to France but I would not want to explain that to Buffy.

I live in an area with many, many sheep and cattle. The sheep are hugely subsidised, in fact each lamb that sells for £50 has received a £100 subsidy. That's why farmers raise them on land that is perfectly OK for crops. I know this because the fields around my smallholding alternate between sheep, barley, kale, rape, wheat, corn etc., depending on market conditions in a particular year. Up in the hills the land is only suitable for sheep, it's too high and strewn with boulders, but that's a fairly small part of the overall land available.

[Vortex2]

We're still seeing ~800 daily hospital desths, plus lots more in the community, some four weeks after lockdown. These fatalities became infected during the first week of lockdown?

Earlier probably - people die after quite a while (weeks) on a ventilator ... and the lead-in is in weeks too.

[vtsnowedin]

I live in an area with many, many sheep and cattle. The sheep are hugely subsidised, in fact each lamb that sells for £50 has received a £100 subsidy. That's why farmers raise them on land that is perfectly OK for crops. I know this because the fields around my smallholding alternate between sheep, barley, kale, rape, wheat, corn etc., depending on market conditions in a particular year. Up in the hills the land is only suitable for sheep, it's too high and strewn with boulders, but that's a fairly small part of the overall land available.

If and when things get tough in the food supply area the government will have to throw those subsidy laws in the bin. They are a luxury only a working prosperous economy can afford.

[fuzzy]

I live in an area with many, many sheep and cattle. The sheep are hugely subsidised, in fact each lamb that sells for £50 has received a £100 subsidy. That's why farmers raise them on land that is perfectly OK for crops. I know this because the fields around my smallholding alternate between sheep, barley, kale, rape, wheat, corn etc., depending on market conditions in a particular year. Up in the hills the land is only suitable for sheep, it's too high and strewn with boulders, but that's a fairly small part of the overall land available.

If and when things get tough in the food supply area the government will have to throw those subsidy laws in the bin. They are a luxury only a working prosperous economy can afford.

Or they subsidise avocados in raised beds in polytunnels so the farmer can pick his own crop.

[boisdevie]

I live in an area with many, many sheep and cattle. The sheep are hugely subsidised, in fact each lamb that sells for £50 has received a £100 subsidy. That's why farmers raise them on land that is perfectly OK for crops. I know this because the fields around my smallholding alternate between sheep, barley, kale, rape, wheat, corn etc., depending on market conditions in a particular year. Up in the hills the land is only suitable for sheep, it's too high and strewn with boulders, but that's a fairly small part of the overall land available.

If and when things get tough in the food supply area the government will have to throw those subsidy laws in the bin. They are a luxury only a working prosperous economy can afford.

Or they subsidise avocados in raised beds in polytunnels so the farmer can pick his own crop.

I know avocados are really popular but would the middle classes (if there will be any left) really pay £20 for one?

[stumuz1]

And let's not forget when people discuss food supplies, they speak in terms of Victorian knowledge and know how.

As the annual state of nature reports show, most fields which are mechanised, are completely dead. You need huge amounts of inputs (diesel, fertilisers, herbicides, insecticides,) to get a crop. It's like trying to get a corpse to move with electric shock.

With organic methods (no dig) the soil becomes a big living breathing organism that basically does the work for you. Big agri corps hate it.

Last week, I had my first new potatoes of the year, planted on boxing day. Yum yum.

Also, I harvest new potatoes in late March/April, June/July/Aug, Nov/Dec with judicial use of cloches.

No chemicals, no ploughing, no digging.

So it comes down to two methods of growing.

It's either:

Flogging a dead horse or working with nature.

[Vortex2]

A fascinating site with tons of interactive graphs ..

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus

[Vortex2]

Life at Chateau Vortex today ...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b007jsys

[Thefatcrofter]

Hello,
Bit of a lurker.
Further up this thread agricultural subsidy is mentioned, I would say there are not many in reality. Yes a sheep may attract money but given it is uneconomic without it I would argue the subsidy goes indirectly to the likes of tesco who can drive down prices by sheer size. I am reminded of an article about a single Wal-Mart store in the USA where staff received benefits, for stamps etc of over $1 million a year who there is being subsidised? Agriculture to a large extent is similar in europe.
Corona is a once in a lifetime opportunity for these companies and the likes of Reece Mogg with his 15% of the hedge fund springs to mind. I have come to the idea that the selling off of council houses was always envisioned thus:
Public money transferred to individuals councils left with debt
Over time a property market enabling private individuals to buy up large amounts of property, BTL, interest only loans,
Change the rules to make that significantly less attractive, but companies no affected
Next crash, housing collapse bingo! In this case Corona, but another 2008 would offer the same chance.A whole pile of privately owned companies buy up
distressed assets.
I think we are blinded by the smoke with a lot of this yes lots of individuals make money that's just cover the main result is more in fewer hands.

[clv101]

The gap between Sweden and neighbours is increasing.
COVID19 deaths
16th - 18th April

Sweden 1203 - 1400
Denmark 309 - 336
Norway 150 - 162
Finland 72 - 82
Estonia 35 - 38
Lithuania 30 - 33
Latvia 5 - 5

[stumuz1]

Hello,
Bit of a lurker.
Further up this thread agricultural subsidy is mentioned, I would say there are not many in reality. Yes a sheep may attract money but given it is uneconomic without it I would argue the subsidy goes indirectly to the likes of tesco who can drive down prices by sheer size. I am reminded of an article about a single Wal-Mart store in the USA where staff received benefits, for stamps etc of over $1 million a year who there is being subsidised? Agriculture to a large extent is similar in europe.
Corona is a once in a lifetime opportunity for these companies and the likes of Reece Mogg with his 15% of the hedge fund springs to mind. I have come to the idea that the selling off of council houses was always envisioned thus:
Public money transferred to individuals councils left with debt
Over time a property market enabling private individuals to buy up large amounts of property, BTL, interest only loans,
Change the rules to make that significantly less attractive, but companies no affected
Next crash, housing collapse bingo! In this case Corona, but another 2008 would offer the same chance.A whole pile of privately owned companies buy up
distressed assets.
I think we are blinded by the smoke with a lot of this yes lots of individuals make money that's just cover the main result is more in fewer hands.

Hello Fatcrofter and welcome to the forum.

That is quite the meander through various subjects and opinions!

[stumuz1]

The gap between Sweden and neighbours is increasing.
COVID19 deaths
16th - 18th April

Sweden 1203 - 1400
Denmark 309 - 336
Norway 150 - 162
Finland 72 - 82
Estonia 35 - 38
Lithuania 30 - 33
Latvia 5 - 5

Hmm, that is quite sobering.

Part of me, the libertarian half, quite likes the Swedish model of here is the empiric, decide how to live your life.
However, that does not protect the vulnerable, or those who cannot understand the empiric evidence. Difficult.

[fuzzy]

Hello,
Bit of a lurker.
Further up this thread agricultural subsidy is mentioned, I would say there are not many in reality. Yes a sheep may attract money but given it is uneconomic without it I would argue the subsidy goes indirectly to the likes of tesco who can drive down prices by sheer size. I am reminded of an article about a single Wal-Mart store in the USA where staff received benefits, for stamps etc of over $1 million a year who there is being subsidised? Agriculture to a large extent is similar in europe.
Corona is a once in a lifetime opportunity for these companies and the likes of Reece Mogg with his 15% of the hedge fund springs to mind. I have come to the idea that the selling off of council houses was always envisioned thus:
Public money transferred to individuals councils left with debt
Over time a property market enabling private individuals to buy up large amounts of property, BTL, interest only loans,
Change the rules to make that significantly less attractive, but companies no affected
Next crash, housing collapse bingo! In this case Corona, but another 2008 would offer the same chance.A whole pile of privately owned companies buy up
distressed assets.
I think we are blinded by the smoke with a lot of this yes lots of individuals make money that's just cover the main result is more in fewer hands.

I live in a rural area and farming in the UK is an odd thing. I imagine the weather is just too unreliable, too damp to store produce in a low tech way. The beautiful parts of the UK are the least productive, with crazy poor roads, small railways all gone. Hills are low by world standards but often steep [glacial ice boundary] with lots of stream gulleys. It certainly doesn't look an easy life, or simple to change land use in many places.

[kenneal - lagger]

...............................
You do realise that our population density is about double that of Cuba? We couldn't even feed ourselves in WW2.

As I have said halt a dozen times before and at least once in this thread, there have been three studies published which show that Britain could grow 80% of it's food and be self sufficient in energy and give greater space to wildlife. So if you cut down on the extra provision for wildlife, stop immigration and allow the population to decline naturally as it would have done without immigration we could soon be in a position to feed ourselves from our own resources. Yes we might have to find substitutes for tea, coffee and chocolate but we wouldn't starve.

Go to www.zerocarbonbritain.org to see how we can feed ourselves.

Don't forget that in WW2 we had a couple of million Americans, some Canadians, Australians and about half a dozen other nationalities camped out on what would have been farmland together with all their equipment and they all needed space to exercise and practice killing people. Agricultural knowledge and seed varieties have improved since then as well.