New coronavirus in/from China

Post by **clv101** » 14 Feb 2020, 22:14

Vortex2 wrote:How much were those FFP3s?

About Â£3 each.

Vortex2 · Post by **Vortex2** » 14 Feb 2020, 22:52

Just seen this:

"The 2002-2003 SARS coronavirus outbreak in China that infected 8,098 people killed 774 (or 1 in 10 died).
The 2012 MERS coronavirus contagion with 2,494 confirmed cases and 858 deaths to date (approximately 1 in 3 died)."

I don't like he look of those death rates.

Link to Lancet article:

https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPd ... %2930183-5

stumuz1 · Post by **stumuz1** » 15 Feb 2020, 09:28

Regarding the face masks, what is the reason you want to buy these ?

Bearing in mind that if you are in a workplace and there is a chance you may be exposed to this virus the The Global Harmonised System (GHS) of classification would classify the virus as a H330. Fatal if inhaled.

See here

https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/content/da ... Poster.pdf

If classified as a H330: Fatal if inhaled. Then this is the minimum sufficient PPE you would expect in the workplace.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... J_-ZWQ5KcK

Here is a good HSE Health and Safety Laboratory study into the efficacy of surgical v N95 respirator masks.

Basically confirms what we know.

1. The main source of infection is large droplets on surfaces. The infection getting into the body on the hands via nose, mouth and eyes.

2. The use of FFP respirators is vitiated by the incorrect maintenance, incorrect storage, incorrect fitting , testing, and use by the untrained user. For example face masks have a tunnelling effect ( concentrates the aerosol infection into the airways) if you are not clean shaven, have a funny shaped nose, or have not been fitted and sniff tested.

Also, about 60 minutes use is all you will get before they are bunged up with sweat and snot.

Am i missing something or is the masks an abundance of caution?

Vortex2 · Post by **Vortex2** » 15 Feb 2020, 09:56

Re masks:

I am planning to use low cost masks & goggles for their SECONDARY effect of minimising hand contact with the T zone infection route of the face i.e. eyes, mouth, nose.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 15 Feb 2020, 09:58

stumuz1 wrote:Regarding the face masks, what is the reason you want to buy these ?

Make people feel like they are doing something useful, even if they aren't.

Mrs Elephant has bought a large pack of them. I am planning on wearing them to Tesco, just for a laugh.

stumuz1 · Post by **stumuz1** » 15 Feb 2020, 10:04

Vortex2 wrote:Re masks:

I am planning to use low cost masks & goggles for their SECONDARY effect of minimising hand contact with the T zone infection route of the face i.e. eyes, mouth, nose.

Goog Idea.

If we do get a UK epidemic, then a good rule of thumb would be hand and surface washing as far as reasonably practicable, with a surgical mask to give a teeny amount of protection against infectious aerosols, also the surgical mass acts as an 'aide memoire' to stop you touching your eyes, mouth, nose, with your infected finger.

I think we've nailed it Vortex

Post by **adam2** » 15 Feb 2020, 10:37

The first fatality in Europe from the Chinese virus has been announced. A Chinese tourist has died in France from the infection.

Vortex2 · Post by **Vortex2** » 15 Feb 2020, 10:44

>> Mrs Elephant has bought a large pack of them. I am planning on wearing them to Tesco, just for a laugh.

I'm tempted to walk around in white protective overalls, googles, mask, gloves and wellies in front of The Mailbox in Brum, where the BBC is.

That should make the news!

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 15 Feb 2020, 10:49

Apart from getting well stocked up on food and other essentials, I am currently planning to do precisely nothing. Unless one is able to run off to the hills and hide there for God knows how long, there is no escaping this if it fully takes off.

Post by **clv101** » 15 Feb 2020, 10:50

adam2 wrote:The first fatality in Europe from the Chinese virus has been announced. A Chinese tourist has died in France from the infection.

This is interesting because we can assume he will have received the best care, there have only been 11 identified cases so this one is a high proportion and also it was at least 4 weeks between infection and death.

He was 80 and we don't know about any comorbidities.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 15 Feb 2020, 12:30

Little John wrote:Apart from getting well stocked up on food and other essentials, I am currently planning to do precisely nothing. Unless one is able to run off to the hills and hide there for God knows how long, there is no escaping this if it fully takes off.

I am curious what effect it might have on my business. I run courses teaching people to forage for wild food. Most sorts of public events will suffer during an outbreak - people will avoid cinemas and most other things where they'll encounter strangers. But it is possible that it might actually increase interest in wild food workshops.

If it wasn't for those events, my family can pretty much avoid most risks.

Vortex2 · Post by **Vortex2** » 15 Feb 2020, 12:45

Well, those leaked/fake videos from China have done my head in.

The last straw was a security camera footage showing gowned hospital staff putting three dead children into a large body bag.

That's on top of the videos showing:

* People lying dead in the street, being ignored by passers-by.

* People having fits and keeling over.

* Police welding people into their houses and apartments.

* People being locked into barred cells/boxes.

* Families being dragged off by the police.

* People trying to escape a huge tented army rural isolation centre.

* Local communities blocking access to their zones with rubble, vehicles etc.

* People without masks being attacked or arrested.

* Sick people deliberating spitting over supermarket shelves, lift control panels and at other people.

It's all horrific ... even if only say 25% of the videos are genuine.

(One thing I noticed :many of the dying/dead seem to be bleeding from their mouths)

Mean Mr Mustard II · Post by **Mean Mr Mustard II** » 15 Feb 2020, 12:46

I run courses teaching people to forage for wild food.

Last September, me and Mrs M were the only ones out foraging for blackberries, elderberries, sloes, rosehips. Never got round to the Hawthorn berries. My near neighbour provided pears, and their vine, and ours did pretty well last year.

I suppose most of that resulting 31 gallons of wine could be bartered for food. We were thinking more along the lines of 'social capital' as the preppers put it.

Post by **mikepepler** » 15 Feb 2020, 12:47

UndercoverElephant wrote:I am curious what effect it might have on my business. I run courses teaching people to forage for wild food. Most sorts of public events will suffer during an outbreak - people will avoid cinemas and most other things where they'll encounter strangers. But it is possible that it might actually increase interest in wild food workshops.

If it wasn't for those events, my family can pretty much avoid most risks.

And as your events are outdoors, they may be seen as lower infectious risk than indoor events.

Post by **mikepepler** » 15 Feb 2020, 12:56

So, China is now trying to tell us that it is 'generally under control'. Personally, I don't believe this, but I'm wondering what their motivation for saying it is?