General Election Dec 2019 thread

[UndercoverElephant]

Anti semitism has a long history. I'm not surprised that Corbyn dislikes Jews, it is a common prejudice among the far left. Jews have historically been connected with money and capitalism.

If you dislike capitalism you are naturally going to be attracted to anti semitism.

Corbyn doesn't dislike Jews. He dislikes the government of Israel.

[Lord Beria3]

His record suggests he does.

Ergo his comment on English zionists not getting irony.

Anyway, even if he didn't, many of his supporters and friends so.

[Little John]

You think that proves... what... exactly?

Ideology.

Be specific. Simply stating "ideology" is nothing more than vague hand waving

[Lord Beria3]

Read the Jewish labour party submission report.

Interestingly they avoided any anti Israel stuff and focused on anti Jewish cases.

Its pretty damning. Should the equalities commission judge labour to have failed to protect Jewish members from discrimination the floodgates will open in terms of law suits against the labour party.

NEC members are worried that could be personally liable and the party risks going bankrupt.

Whatever your views on the subject the real world implications for labour could be grave.

As a compliance professional the way labour gave handled this is abysmal. The governance processes have been totally inadequate.

[Lord Beria3]

https://www.scribd.com/document/4383670 ... o-the-EHRC

Full report for those who wish to read it.

[stumuz1]

You think that proves... what... exactly?

Ideology.

Be specific. Simply stating "ideology" is nothing more than vague hand waving

Watch the video again. It was classic Animal farm. Four legs good two legs bad stuff. They were incapable of independent thought or critical thinking.

Marxist ideology. Quite shocking to see it in action.

[Lord Beria3]

Back to the ge - my sense is that:

1) the polls have been stable for the last few days with Labour flat lining in the early 30's and Tories in the early 40's.

2) Brexit Party continues to implode with the call by 4 Brexit MEP's to vote Tory today.

3) The Friday debates is the last big set opportunity to change things for Corbyn but we only have a week left now. The clock is ticking.

4) The undecided vote is important and something to watch in the final days of the campaign.

5) Labour have picked us support from the Lib Dems but not clear where the vote are pilling up. Are they are in Labour seats (where they don't need them) or in marginals where they definitely do need them. My sense is that its the first nor the latter according to what I'm reading.

6) Welsh Tories haven't had a good election and it seems that the Tories will be lucky to pick up a few seats now. Scotland, on the other hand, is looking far more promising for the Tories.

The conventional wisdom remains that the Tories will lose a couple of seats in Scotland but a few contrarians, me included, are saying that the Tories could win seats in key Tory-SNP marginals.

[clv101]

I can see the Tories losing a few from Scotland and Wales combined, but picking up a few dozen from England leading to a ~20-30 majority.

The key point was BP standing down in Tory seats and the following implosion. Had Farage fought on, with the single, clear argument that Johnson's deal wasn't Brexit then he could have picked up a few seats, and denied the Tories a couple dozen, certainly enough to cost him a majority... but no, it wasn't to be.

[Lord Beria3]

Would agree with that analysis.

Farage has had a disastrous election. He could have targeted a few Labour Leave seats and left the rest of the country alone and that might have worked to.

[clv101]

Looks like the BBC have given up! Strong words:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co ... 9-50679252

[UndercoverElephant]

I can see the Tories losing a few from Scotland and Wales combined, but picking up a few dozen from England leading to a ~20-30 majority.

The key point was BP standing down in Tory seats and the following implosion. Had Farage fought on, with the single, clear argument that Johnson's deal wasn't Brexit then he could have picked up a few seats, and denied the Tories a couple dozen, certainly enough to cost him a majority... but no, it wasn't to be.

We still don't know the impact of this though. National polls are no use whatsoever, because what is likely to have changed as a result is the tendency for people to vote tactically against the tories. This will involve both libdems switching to labour and labour switching to libdems, in different consituency. 2 million people could have decided to do that, without any change to the national vote share.

[UndercoverElephant]

Looks like the BBC have given up! Strong words:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co ... 9-50679252

Wow. He won't do it now, but this looks really bad.

[Little John]

Ideology.

Be specific. Simply stating "ideology" is nothing more than vague hand waving

Watch the video again. It was classic Animal farm. Four legs good two legs bad stuff. They were incapable of independent thought or critical thinking.

Marxist ideology. Quite shocking to see it in action.

Firstly, that is moving the goalposts. Whether or not they are dumb ass ideologues is a separate issue to whether or not Corbyn or the Labour party is antisemitic. Secondly, are you seriously trying to make out that the supply of ideologically driven dumbassery is limited solely to Labour party supporters?

[Little John]

Read the Jewish labour party submission report.

Interestingly they avoided any anti Israel stuff and focused on anti Jewish cases.

Its pretty damning. Should the equalities commission judge labour to have failed to protect Jewish members from discrimination the floodgates will open in terms of law suits against the labour party.

NEC members are worried that could be personally liable and the party risks going bankrupt.

Whatever your views on the subject the real world implications for labour could be grave.

As a compliance professional the way labour gave handled this is abysmal. The governance processes have been totally inadequate.

I note you haven't actually provided a single quote from that report.

[Lord Beria3]

I provided a link, can you not read LJ.

A few quotes since reading the report was too much to ask for...

"Members of the party have also described antisemitic behaviour from employees. One former staffer of the Leader’s Office (“LOTO�) reported that he had been subjected to an “inquisition� about being Jewish, including his views on Israel."

One respondent lists 22 examples of antisemitic abuse which have been directed at him at various CLP meetings. Examples include being called “a Tory Jew�, “a child killer�, “Zio scum�, being told that “[he’s] good with money�, “to shut the f*** up Jew�, “that Hitler was right�

“A member reports that, at a CLP meeting, other members defended an individual who repeated an antisemitic trope that it is ‘the over-representation of Jews in the capitalist ruling class that gives the Israel-Zionist lobby its power."

“A parliamentary candidate describes witnessing a member tell a Jewish councillor to go home and count their money after they were deselected."

“One member described how he shared a breakfast table with two delegates who had not met before. They quickly agreed that Jews were “subhuman�, “didn’t deserve to be allowed to define what constitutes antisemitism� and should be “grateful we don’t make them eat bacon…"

“A speaker at a fringe event asserted a right to discuss whether the Holocaust happened. Nobody called out the behaviour. When the floor was opened up to audience questions, a member commented that American police who killed black teenagers were probably trained in Israel"