General Election Dec 2019 thread

What can we do to change the minds of decision makers and people in general to actually do something about preparing for the forthcoming economic/energy crises (the ones after this one!)?

Moderator: Peak Moderation

RevdTess
Posts: 3054
Joined: 24 Nov 2005, 11:09
Location: Glasgow

Post by RevdTess »

clv101 wrote:The other big difference is that the Brexit lie was about something they said they were going to do, then didn't, today's lies are simple factual lies about the past, not campaign promises.
Yes that's a good point. Like you I am used to promises being broken, but definitely still not used to blatant lies about historical fact. Since the advent of 'alternative facts', anyone can just refuse to accept media evidence as biased or media lies. There is no longer any agreed objective historical record. Even something like Hansard gets debated and reported as if it cannot really be trusted. I've seen quotes on the BBC with phrases like "Hansard apparently has no evidence of this claim" rather than "The politician was found to be lying".

I'm not convinced that people now only care about "what the man does". I'd actually come to a slightly different conclusion, that people now only care about the sort of person the man is, for good or bad, and what they actually do is not relevant, because they can convince their followers that whatever they have done is the best thing, regardless of any reality. Hence Johnson can claim that his Brexit deal is the best deal and because his followers think he's the reincarnation of Winston Churchill they will believe it.

I don't think anyone is immune to this. I have my favourite politicians and I'll generally judge their actions by whether I think they're good people (according to my educated middle class Christian values), because it's almost impossible to judge their actions. We don't have the information. But I can tell I don't like Johnson or Swinson, and that I do like Lucas and Sturgeon and Mhairi Black, and Corbyn leaves me cold, and I'd love to have a beer with Farage.
User avatar
PS_RalphW
Posts: 6977
Joined: 24 Nov 2005, 11:09
Location: Cambridge

Post by PS_RalphW »

For an MP to accuse another MP of lying whilst in the house of commons is forbidden. The accusing MP will be asked to withdraw the comment or be penalised. The accusation will not be reported in Hansard.
stumuz1
Posts: 901
Joined: 07 Jun 2016, 22:12
Location: Anglesey

Post by stumuz1 »

RevdTess wrote: I do like Sturgeon and Mhairi Black,
Which is your favourite nationalist party ?

Balochistan Liberation Army (BLA)
ETA
EOKA
Partiya Karkerên Kurdistan[4] (PKK)
Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia (ASALA)
Front de libération du Québec (FLQ)
Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA)
People's Mujahedin of Iran (MKO)
Tamil Tigers (LTTE)
Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA)
Wawelberg Group
Lehi
Irgun
National Bolshevik Front (NBF)
Kosovo Liberation Army (UÇK)
Ustaše
Plaid Cymru
Scottish nationalist party
User avatar
Lord Beria3
Posts: 5066
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 20:57
Location: Moscow Russia
Contact:

Post by Lord Beria3 »

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/12/the ... w%20Parris

Parris, who called the 2017 ge correctly is forecasting a tory majority but no breakthrough in the Midlands and the north - just patchy gains.

That fits with my own forecast.
Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction
User avatar
UndercoverElephant
Posts: 13500
Joined: 10 Mar 2008, 00:00
Location: UK

Post by UndercoverElephant »

Lord Beria3 wrote:https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/12/the ... w%20Parris

Parris, who called the 2017 ge correctly is forecasting a tory majority but no breakthrough in the Midlands and the north - just patchy gains.

That fits with my own forecast.
It's actually getting harder and harder to figure out what is going to happen. I am expecting anything in the range of a tory majority of 30 to the tories 30 short of a majority. And it could easily be outside of that range.

The problem is trying to translate the national vote shares - which are themselves not likely to be very reliable - into how it will play out in different parts of the country. Especially given the fundamental ways this election is different to a normal election.

I will make one prediction though: If the tories hold on to Hastings, they will win a majority, and if they don't, they won't.
User avatar
PS_RalphW
Posts: 6977
Joined: 24 Nov 2005, 11:09
Location: Cambridge

Post by PS_RalphW »

There are rumours (in the express so not exactly reliable) that if Johnson gets a small majority the ERG will then vote against the agreed brexit deal in order to force their preferred option of a no deal exit.
User avatar
Lord Beria3
Posts: 5066
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 20:57
Location: Moscow Russia
Contact:

Post by Lord Beria3 »

Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction
stumuz1
Posts: 901
Joined: 07 Jun 2016, 22:12
Location: Anglesey

Post by stumuz1 »

Quite shocking.
Little John

Post by Little John »

Weak pathetic, insubstantial bullshit.

So, to summarize:

1) Gather a few thick labour supporting numpties.

2) Give them a few quotes and examples of Jeremy Corbyn (and pretend they are from Boris Johnson) where Corbyn is not himself antisemitic at all. But is, indirectly, loosely associated in some minor way with some people who to a greater or less extent may be. But, many of whom are just pointing out facts. In other words, examples that could be equally applied to most people in politics given the number of other political figures and organizations or simply people in the broader intelligentsia they may at one time or another be loosely associated with in some minor way due to the nature of their job.

3) Then tell said thick Labour supporting numties it was Corbyn after all.

4) Watch as said thick numpties sputter and squeal.

So what?

You think that proves... what... exactly?
Last edited by Little John on 05 Dec 2019, 16:32, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Lord Beria3
Posts: 5066
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 20:57
Location: Moscow Russia
Contact:

Post by Lord Beria3 »

Corbyn is a racist and unfit to be PM.

Even labour supporters admitted it.
Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction
User avatar
clv101
Site Admin
Posts: 10556
Joined: 24 Nov 2005, 11:09
Contact:

Post by clv101 »

Lord Beria3 wrote:Corbyn is a racist...
You actually believe that, or you've be had by the propaganda. Johnson on the other hand...
stumuz1
Posts: 901
Joined: 07 Jun 2016, 22:12
Location: Anglesey

Post by stumuz1 »

Little John wrote:
You think that proves... what... exactly?
Ideology.
User avatar
Lord Beria3
Posts: 5066
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 20:57
Location: Moscow Russia
Contact:

Post by Lord Beria3 »

Watch the video. Even labour supporters accidently admit Corbyn is a racist.
Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction
User avatar
Lord Beria3
Posts: 5066
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 20:57
Location: Moscow Russia
Contact:

Post by Lord Beria3 »

Anti semitism has a long history. I'm not surprised that Corbyn dislikes Jews, it is a common prejudice among the far left. Jews have historically been connected with money and capitalism.

If you dislike capitalism you are naturally going to be attracted to anti semitism.
Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction
User avatar
UndercoverElephant
Posts: 13500
Joined: 10 Mar 2008, 00:00
Location: UK

Post by UndercoverElephant »

Lord Beria3 wrote:Corbyn is a racist and unfit to be PM.

Even labour supporters admitted it.
You actually believe that crap, don't you?

Corbyn has spent his whole life fighting against racism. Meanwhile Johnson is an actual, real-life racist.

I thought you were more intelligent than to have just swallowed that propaganda and believed it.
Post Reply