What can we do to change the minds of decision makers and people in general to actually do something about preparing for the forthcoming economic/energy crises (the ones after this one!)?
Little John wrote:
But, you think this means Labour can now chase the Leave vote do you? I'd laugh if it wasn't so f***ing tragic.
It means they don't have to worry about bleeding support to the liberal democrats if they do. Which is true. Whether pivoting back towards leave will have any effect remains to be seen.
And yes, I don't think anybody expected the liberal democrats to do so badly that yougov would be predicting them to only gain 1 seat. It's not just their brexit policy. It's Swinson's awful attitude and delivery. The problem is an apparent total failure to understand why the libdems were reduced to 12 seats last time. She's seriously pissed off labour supporters who tactically support the libdems. Also behaving like she became libdem leader on merit, when the reality is that there were only 12 people to choose from. She personally benefited from the libdem meltdown, and doesn't seem to realise that is what happened.
I have personally never felt so much anger towards an individual politician. She's even more despicable than Clegg, and that is saying something. No principles whatsoever.
She is deluded and deranged. The fact that she sounds just like Doc Martin's receptionist does not do her any favours.
If I stil lived in GB and yougov's current predictions came true I would be planning to emigrate asap. Having seen in the past, at close quarters, so called "election analysts" trying to call election results ( funnily enough strangely biased by their own political prejudices and dodgy algorithms) I am not convinced.
The CH4 debate tonight was generally uninspiring but at least you got the feeling that many of the issues we can tend to obsess over here are working there way into the minds of the political mainstream.
Some of them get it and some of them do not.
At least Jezza understands the importance of soil.
Cynical as I am full marks to the CH4 from their bunker on Grays Inn Road for doing this.
All those US celebrities never left after Trump won the election.
LJ - not sure why you think I'm a neoliberal globalist. If that is the case in would have backed remain.
Just because I'm not a socialist doesn't mean I don't favour changes to the economic status quo. A support reformist measures that ease regulation on small businesses, end free movement and allow tariffs to protect our manufacturing base.
Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction
Lord Beria3 wrote:....LJ - not sure why you think I'm a neoliberal globalist. If that is the case in would have backed remain.
Just because I'm not a socialist doesn't mean I don't favour changes to the economic status quo. A support reformist measures that ease regulation on small businesses, end free movement and allow tariffs to protect our manufacturing base.
I don't think you are a neo-liberal globalist. Or, at least, I don't think you think you are. But, I do think you have a politically tribal-based blind spot and are consequently harboring the delusion that Johnson's Tory party is anything but a neo-liberal globalist party. Part of it wishes to remain tied to a neo-liberal, globalist, capitalist club called the EU and the other half wishes to be alternatively more closely tied to the neo-liberal, globalist, capitalist club called the US. That's all.
And, as for international movement of labour - with respect to the Brexity flank of the Tory party, this simply means reducing mass immigration from the EU and increasing it from the rest of the world to take up the slack.
So, it turns out that people's voting intentions in this GE are largely based on how they voted in the 2016 EU referendum and the 2019 EU elections.
In other news, bears shit in the woods.
Not everybody thinks brexit is the biggest issue at this election. A large proportion prioritise other things.
An even larger proportion, as is becoming more apparent with each poll, prioritise Democracy even more. Meanwhile, a diminishing number of the culturally/intellectually arrogant and ideologically obsessed appear to not.
Lord Beria3 wrote:Johnson champions state aid post Brexit.
More signs that the Tories are moving away from neoliberalism.
I'm delighted.
The truth is that in that sense, Corbyn has already won. He and momentum have redefined the Overton Window of british politics. If the tories campaigned on more austerity now, they would get slaughtered.
I hang around on tory places online. A lot of them think their party has already given too much ground to Labour.
Lord Beria3 wrote:Johnson champions state aid post Brexit.
More signs that the Tories are moving away from neoliberalism.
I'm delighted.
The truth is that in that sense, Corbyn has already won. He and momentum have redefined the Overton Window of british politics. If the tories campaigned on more austerity now, they would get slaughtered.
I hang around on tory places online. A lot of them think their party has already given too much ground to Labour.
Bullshit. The Brexit vote is what has won to any extent that anything has, in fact, been won.
Brexit was, more than any other thing, a democratic scream of rage against 40 years of neo-liberlism and the Tories under Johnson, no matter how disingenuously, are the only mainstream political party currently appearing to even provide a simulacrum of response to that.
In other words, the reason the Labour party are going to lose this election is because they have covertly, but progressively flouted that democratic mandate and the reason the Lib Dems are looking over the precipice once more is due to their overt flouting of it.
Not bullshit. The tories are being dragged further to the left because of Corbyn. It's the political equivalent of gravity.
Brexit is another part of the story, but is only happening because a bunch of extremely right wing people who are worse than neoliberals wanted it to happen.
Tories are moving in a statist direction to get the votes of labour leave voters.
This was triggered by Brexit.
I don't agree. They are both causes. If Labour was still controlled by Blairites, the tories would be further to the right.
The PLP still is controlled by Blairites. Just not the one's who shoot their mouths off about being Blairites. That's all. It's not a Blairite at the helm to be sure. But, that is saying precisely nothing given he is a complete hostage to them. And, his being at the helm is for precisely the same reason we got Brexit. The people have had enough of globalism. And Corbyn was unable or unwilling to rise to what that required. That makes him worse than useless. It makes him just another establishment stooge, whether or not he intended that in the first place. That is all he has become. The Tories are even worse, of course and their "Brexit" will be a pile of bullshit. But, they had the necessary venal instinct to know that if they did not at least make the right noises vis a vis Brexit, they too would be f***ed by the electorate.
So, what we now have coming up is another five years of a Tory horror show all becasue middle class twits like you thought you could fashion a Labour party in your own image and piss all over the working class yet again on the basis that the thick buggers would just keep on voting for Labour because they had nowhere else to turn.... right?
It's like watching a half-arsed re-run of the Democratic party US election campaign circa 2016 and we are heading for exactly the same outcome.
It's like f***ing groundhog day.
Last edited by Little John on 30 Nov 2019, 10:07, edited 3 times in total.
