General Election Dec 2019 thread

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 27 Nov 2019, 09:30

There is racism in all parties, probably all large institutions if you look hard enough. Want seems to be case with the last couple of years is that accusations of antisemitism in Labour get far more media and especially far more BBC coverage than , for example, Muslim or black racism in the Tory party. Almost always missing is the details of the racist incidents, presumably to avoid adding to the offence. It is very hard to judge how real or how extreme any given incident is.

I can't help noticing that a lot of comment on antisemitism confuses anti-semitism and anti-Zionism. The state of Israel is still controversial, the military actions of Isreal in recent decades are often brutal, often condemned by independent human rights organisations, their policies on the west bank are routinely declared illegal by the UN and international lawyers.

There is 80 years of history behind all this, with evil on both sides, but a lot of decent and honest friends of mine see only the poor suffering of the Jewish people and do not see how little the rulers of Israel have learnt from their own suffering at the hands of the Nazis and the Russians and a thousand years of open discrimination.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 27 Nov 2019, 09:45

Lord Beria3 wrote:The failure by labour to deal with the anti semite in the labour party is definitely damaging the party.

Met quite a few voters who have raised this issue as a reason why they can't vote labour.

The palpable fear among jews in the uk to Corbyn is hitting labour and shaping the perception that labour is extreme.

Their far left economic policies don't help either in that sense.

Almost no potential Labour voters are taking any notice of the fake anti-semitism slurs.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 27 Nov 2019, 10:42

Tories distributing fake newspapers in Hastings:

Just received this through my front door (see image links). It is a fake newspaper with a red tabloid-style banner calling itself "Hastings and Rye Future". It is tory campaign literature, quite literally presenting itself as an independent newspaper.

https://imgur.com/ZV0n7i2
https://imgur.com/JdlgVOd

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 27 Nov 2019, 10:56

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50572454

Labour says it has evidence the NHS is at risk under a post-Brexit trade deal with the US.

At a press conference in London, Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn said he had a 451-page dossier showing talks had taken place on drug pricing and access to NHS contracts.

He warned it could lead to the NHS paying more for drugs and "run-away privatisation" of health care.

The Tories have said the NHS is not at risk under a future trade deal.

In its manifesto, published at the weekend, the party explicitly stated neither the price paid for drugs or the services provided would be "on the table".

The BBC has not yet had chance to analyse the dossier.

This is big. We now have proof that the tories want to give US big pharma access to the NHS at inflated prices. Johnson has point blank denied this and is now known to be lying about it.

This could swing the election.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 27 Nov 2019, 11:47

Lord Beria3 wrote:The failure by labour to deal with the anti semite in the labour party is definitely damaging the party.

Met quite a few voters who have raised this issue as a reason why they can't vote labour.

The palpable fear among jews in the uk to Corbyn is hitting labour and shaping the perception that labour is extreme.

Their far left economic policies don't help either in that sense.

what a load of cock walloping bollocks

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 27 Nov 2019, 12:23

Little John wrote:
Lord Beria3 wrote:The failure by labour to deal with the anti semite in the labour party is definitely damaging the party.

Met quite a few voters who have raised this issue as a reason why they can't vote labour.

The palpable fear among jews in the uk to Corbyn is hitting labour and shaping the perception that labour is extreme.

Their far left economic policies don't help either in that sense.
what a load of cock walloping bollocks

Yup. The only people I know who think Labour is a threat to Jews are people who never remotely considered voting Labour.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 27 Nov 2019, 12:32

However, the only reason any of this bullshit is sticking, alongside the myriad of other bullshit being thrown at Labour at the moment, is because people are receptive to hearing it due to being predisposed to be pissed of with Labour over Brexit. Or, to be more precise, predisposed to be pissed off with Labour over democracy. Brexit being merely the vehicle for that.

Lord Beria3 · Post by **Lord Beria3** » 27 Nov 2019, 12:33

What about Jewish voters who used to vote labour.

Still amazed people are in denial about anti semitism within the labour party.

It's not going down well among the wider electorate.

Bottom line a failure of management with labour. All they had to do is kick out a few nutters and reach out to the Jewish community.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 27 Nov 2019, 12:35

Lord Beria3 wrote:What about Jewish voters who used to vote labour.

Still amazed people are in denial about anti semitism within the labour party.

It's not going down well among the wider electorate.

Bottom line a failure of management with labour. All they had to do is kick out a few nutters and reach out to the Jewish community.

Still "amazed" are you?

Okay, Lets hear it then. Where is this overwhelming, voluminous evidence of antisemitism in the Labour party? I am all ears.

Lord Beria3 · Post by **Lord Beria3** » 27 Nov 2019, 12:39

Anyway, my point is that whether you think the claims of anti semitism is justified or not within the labour party, it is having an impact in the election.

And it's a relatively easy one to sort out. McDonnell would never have let this happen if he was labour leader.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 27 Nov 2019, 12:40

Lord Beria3 wrote:Anyway, my point is that whether you think the claims of anti semitism is justified or not within the labour party, it is having an impact in the election.

And it's a relatively easy one to sort out. McDonnell would never have let this happen if he was labour leader.

No, your point was that there is rampant antisemitism in the Labour party and you have been asked to provide evidence. Do you have any? At all?

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 27 Nov 2019, 12:42

Lord Beria3 wrote:What about Jewish voters who used to vote labour.

They are still voting Labour. Most of them are quite angry about the smears:

https://dorseteye.com/dear-chief-rabbiy ... tisemitism

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 27 Nov 2019, 12:43

Lord Beria3 wrote:Anyway, my point is that whether you think the claims of anti semitism is justified or not within the labour party, it is having an impact in the election.

I don't think it is. Any impact the non-issue of anti-semitism in the Labour party was baked into the cake a long time ago.

Potemkin Villager · Post by **Potemkin Villager** » 27 Nov 2019, 12:44

The slanted BBC coverage of this is absolutely disgraceful.

Lord Beria3 · Post by **Lord Beria3** » 27 Nov 2019, 12:44

https://www.google.com/amp/s/forward.co ... sm/%3fgamp

From the horses mouth himself... jezza himself.