General Election Dec 2019 thread

[clv101]

He should have said that he personally wouldn't campaign either way - "it's up to you, the people to decide".

It's would have been a powerful statement about giving power to the people, and be saying he personally wouldn't campaign wouldn't tie the party or any other's hands.

Or he could have just said, it depends on the deal we negotiate!

Repeating the same prepared sentence, avoiding the question, three times just sounded silly.

[Lord Beria3]

The people have already decided.

They voted out in 2016!

[clv101]

The people have already decided.

They voted out in 2016!

Indeed, in which case we can expect a Tory majority and rapid progress. However, *if* we end up with a Labour led government, based on their position on Brexit, such a 2nd referendum will have a mandate.

[emordnilap]

The people have already decided.

They voted out in 2016!

Indeed, in which case we can expect a Tory majority and rapid progress. However, *if* we end up with a Labour led government, based on their position on Brexit, such a 2nd referendum will have a mandate.

And give many first-time voters a choice.

[UndercoverElephant]

Sneak preview of tomorrow's Corbyn speech, introducing manifesto

https://tribunemag.co.uk/2019/11/corbyn ... t-swinging

“This is a manifesto of hope. A manifesto that will bring real change. A manifesto full of popular policies that the political establishment has blocked for a generation. Those policies are fully costed, with no tax increases for 95% of taxpayers.

Over the next three weeks, the most powerful people in Britain and their supporters are going to tell you that everything in this manifesto is impossible. That it’s too much for you. Because they don’t want real change. Why would they? The system is working just fine for them. It’s rigged in their favour.

But it’s not working for you. If your wages never seem to go up and your bills never seem to go down, if your public services only seem to get worse, despite the heroic efforts of those who work in them, then it’s not working for you.

And that’s why so many people in Britain have given up on politics. That’s why you hear people say about politicians: “They’re all the same.�

Well, not any more. Because this party, this movement, this manifesto is different. Labour is on your side. And there could scarcely be a clearer demonstration of that than the furious reaction of the rich and powerful.

If the bankers, billionaires and the establishment thought we represented politics as usual, that we could be bought off, that nothing was really going to change, they wouldn’t attack us so ferociously. Why bother?

But they know we mean what we say. They know we will deliver our plans, which is why they want to stop us being elected.

They know we will go after the tax dodgers, the bad bosses and the big polluters so that everybody in our country gets a fair chance in life. That’s why they throw everything they’ve got at us. Because they’re scared of real change. Because they aren’t on your side.

A third of Britain’s billionaires have donated to the Conservative Party. The billionaires and the super rich, the tax dodgers, the bad bosses and the big polluters – they own the Conservative Party.

But they don’t own us. They don’t own the Labour Party. The people own the Labour Party. That’s why the billionaires attack us. That’s why the billionaire-owned media makes things up about us.

The US president who led his country out of the Great Depression, President Franklin Roosevelt, had to take on the rich and powerful in America to do it. That’s why he said: “They are unanimous in their hate for me, and I welcome their hatred.�

He knew that when you’re serious about real change, those who profit from a rigged system, who squirrel away the wealth created by millions of people, won’t give up without a fight.

So I accept the implacable opposition and hostility of the rich and powerful is inevitable.

I accept the opposition of the billionaires because we will make those at the top pay their fair share of tax to help fund world class public services for you. That’s real change.

I accept the hostility of the bad bosses paying poverty pay because we will give Britain a pay rise, starting with a real living wage of at least £10 an hour, including for young workers. That’s real change.

I accept the implacable opposition of the dodgy landlords because we’ll build a million homes, empower tenants and control rents. That’s real change.

I accept the hostility of the big polluters because we will make sure they pay their fair share of the costs of their destruction, create huge numbers of climate jobs and build the healthy, green economy of the future. That’s real change.

I accept the fierce opposition of the giant healthcare corporations because we will stop them sucking out profits from our NHS. That’s real change.

I accept the hostility of the privatised utilities companies because we will stop their great rip off by bringing rail, mail, water and energy into public ownership and running them for the people. That’s real change.

And here’s a brand new one: I accept the implacable opposition of the private Internet providers because we’re going to give you the very fastest full fibre broadband for free. That’s real change.

You can trust us to do all this because we’re opposed by the vested interests for standing up for a different kind of society. We’ll deliver real change for the many, and not the few. That’s what this manifesto is all about.

And you really can have this plan for real change because you don’t need money to buy it. You just need a vote – and your vote can be more powerful than all their wealth.�

[fuzzy]

I bet that's already been translated into 20 languages. No border force then?

[UndercoverElephant]

https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/upload ... o-2019.pdf

Wow. Pretty spectacular stuff. Including repealing the the FTPA and abolishing the house of lords.

[Snail]

All parties will prob. abolish ftpa. It only says in manifesto"work to abolish house of lords".

Admittedly I cant really be bothered look at this closely, simply because of brexit.

---
Seems to want to keep status quo on freedom of movement; whether we stay or leave.

[Little John]

Labour's manifesto makes it quite plain that the Brexit people voted for - namely to regain full sovereignty over borders, judiciary and legislature - would not be available in any second referendum. Instead, people would be presented with "Remain" or "Remain In All But Name".

Finally, much of the proposed nationalizations Labour are wanking on about would be illegal under existing and upcoming EU legislation. They will know this.

It's bullshit with pretty ribbons on it. But it is still bullshit.

[Snail]

It's like myself when I got over-excited about the snp and scot independence. It's only afterwards, when the emotions have calmed down, that you realize certain things.

Corbyn said this manifesto was one of hope. Well, he isn't wrong.

[UndercoverElephant]

Labour's manifesto makes it quite plain that the Brexit people voted for...

Labour's manifesto just turned this election into something much bigger than brexit.

...namely to regain full sovereignty over borders, judiciary and legislature - would not be available in any second referendum. Instead, people would be presented with "Remain" or "Remain In All But Name".

I don't agree, but it will certainly look like that to anybody who really is hoping for a big trade deal with the US.

Finally, much of the proposed nationalizations Labour are wanking on about would be illegal under existing and upcoming EU legislation. They will know this.

It's bullshit with pretty ribbons on it. But it is still bullshit.

It's the most radical manifesto of any major party since 1945, and I suspect it is going to be very popular. The response to it so far has been very muted. I don't think the tories know how to attack it, because it pre-empts their normal line of attack. It's so far outside "acceptable economics" that attacking it from the point of view of acceptable economics won't work.

The tories are going to lose this election.

[Lord Beria3]

UE prepared to bet money on that outcome?

Labour majority odds look juicy.

Time to walk the walk not just talk the talk mate.

[RevdTess]

The tories are going to lose this election.

Much as I long for this, I really don't see it. Not if the polls are to be believed:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_p ... l_election

They might just fail to get a majority again - do you consider that 'losing' ?

I think the Labour manifesto is great, of course. Perhaps too great to appear realistic to most people. I do wish they'd make their Brexit referendum WTO Terms vs Remain though. Negotiating a weak deal that they then don't really support will look terrible and if Remain win a 2nd ref on those terms it would never be over.

Anyway, most bookies have a Tory majority at 2/1-on with a hung parliament at 2/1 and a Labour majority at 25/1, so I doubt we're going to be talking about Labour's manifesto for very long. We should probably be talking about who the next Labour leader might be...

[UndercoverElephant]

The tories are going to lose this election.

Much as I long for this, I really don't see it. Not if the polls are to be believed:

The polls should not be believed.

They might just fail to get a majority again - do you consider that 'losing' ?

Yes. I am guessing the libdems will end up backing Corbyn rather than Johnson in this situation. The tories need a working majority of their own, or they will go into opposition.

Anyway, most bookies have a Tory majority at 2/1-on with a hung parliament at 2/1 and a Labour majority at 25/1, so I doubt we're going to be talking about Labour's manifesto for very long. We should probably be talking about who the next Labour leader might be...

Have faith.

[UndercoverElephant]

UE prepared to bet money on that outcome?

Labour majority odds look juicy.

Time to walk the walk not just talk the talk mate.

I don't think Labour will win a majority. I think Corbyn will become Prime Minister in all cases where the tories fail to get a majority.