We have found a smallholding after a mere 5+ years!
Moderator: Peak Moderation
I wonder how long that will last post peak.Vortex wrote: We have also just found out why so many people hold large chunks of agricultural land ... there is NO inheritance tax on it!
Rob
XENG - University of Exeter Engineering Society
"Now there is one outstandingly important fact regarding Spaceship Earth, and that is that no instruction book came with it." - R. Buckminster Fuller
XENG - University of Exeter Engineering Society
"Now there is one outstandingly important fact regarding Spaceship Earth, and that is that no instruction book came with it." - R. Buckminster Fuller
We received the initial paperwork today.
If I have read the plans correctly, the bit of land we have bought is shown below ... it's currently a plum orchard.
There is an access track from the road to the top left corner.
Luckily last year we bought a 4WD people carrier (no, not a SUV!) with a huge ground clearance .... a car can't negotiate the track, as my poor Audi proved!
The right hand edge is quite a bit higher than the left ... almost a hill crest.
If I have read the plans correctly, the bit of land we have bought is shown below ... it's currently a plum orchard.
There is an access track from the road to the top left corner.
Luckily last year we bought a 4WD people carrier (no, not a SUV!) with a huge ground clearance .... a car can't negotiate the track, as my poor Audi proved!
The right hand edge is quite a bit higher than the left ... almost a hill crest.
Beautiful!
Have you got planning permission - are you planning on building? Will you keep the plums? etc. etc.
It was a beautiful week-end this part of the world, so no doubt you had a walk around making plans in your head.....
... we still do this on a nice day and we've been here 16 years!
Thanks for the picture.
Have you got planning permission - are you planning on building? Will you keep the plums? etc. etc.
It was a beautiful week-end this part of the world, so no doubt you had a walk around making plans in your head.....
... we still do this on a nice day and we've been here 16 years!Thanks for the picture.
We'll keep maybe 1/3rd of the plums - many are sick.
We plan 2 polytunnels, 2 large water tanks and 3 or 4 1/2 size steel shipping containers to hold tools, genny, office etc ... but no real buildings.
We will need very good security due to some - umm - "interesting" neighbours.
I would use rolls of razor wire as fencing if I thought it would't hurt animals.
We plan 2 polytunnels, 2 large water tanks and 3 or 4 1/2 size steel shipping containers to hold tools, genny, office etc ... but no real buildings.
We will need very good security due to some - umm - "interesting" neighbours.
I would use rolls of razor wire as fencing if I thought it would't hurt animals.
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kenneal - lagger
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Beautiful plot, Vortex.
Have you thought of Forest Gardening
http://www.agroforestry.co.uk/forgndg.html
http://www.DODGY TAX AVOIDERS.co.uk/Forest-Gardenin ... F8&s=books
http://www.DODGY TAX AVOIDERS.co.uk/Make-Forest-Gar ... F8&s=books
We've got a conventional veggie plot with deep beds but we're putting part of a wooded area over to a forest garden to see how it goes.
Have you thought of Forest Gardening
http://www.agroforestry.co.uk/forgndg.html
http://www.DODGY TAX AVOIDERS.co.uk/Forest-Gardenin ... F8&s=books
http://www.DODGY TAX AVOIDERS.co.uk/Make-Forest-Gar ... F8&s=books
We've got a conventional veggie plot with deep beds but we're putting part of a wooded area over to a forest garden to see how it goes.
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Miss Madam
- Posts: 415
- Joined: 24 Nov 2005, 11:09
- Location: Oxford, UK
Re: land
Hi TracyTracy Pepler wrote:That's great news, I am SO JEALOUS! Mike will be too, we are desperate to get on with this too.
Let us know how much hard work it is! might help us all to be patient in our own hunt!
All the best
Tracy
There are a group of us in Oxford, looking for something similar (mixed woodland and pasture land) for a permaculture smallholding / low impact settlement relatively close to Oxford. I had been put off by ridiculously high land prices but I went on a great course at the weekend at LILI near Buckingham by Simon Fairlie formerly of Tinkers Bubble and currently of Chapter 7 / the Land is Ours Movement, he was discussing the realities of buying agricultural land and smallholding it - including how to get that elusive planning permission for a dwelling - without getting an enforcement act slapped on your ass! The trick seems to be to buy a large plot (at least 15 - 20 acres) collectively, and split it into individual smallholdings if so desired once the permitted development rights to build a barn, tracks etc have been utilised and to prove a need to be on the land. He also stressed that there was some sense in keeping some elements of the land communal - i.e. woodland so large scale tasks are done together and to avoid duplication of 'kit'. If you want to meet up and discuss maybe it's time we revitalised the Oxford meet ups. (I've been underground for an age due to new job, too much work travel, a house move and dumping my ex!)
I got some great materials from the course - you're more than welcome to borrow them.
Hope you and Mike are both well
Cat x
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Blue Peter
- Posts: 1939
- Joined: 24 Nov 2005, 11:09
- Location: Milton Keynes
Re: land
I went on that course last year, and it is very good - it's mainly to do with getting land rather than actually running a smallholding (which the title "Low Impact Smallholding" might suggest). I'd be interested to know about the significance of buying a large plot and then splitting it up, since that wasn't particularly mentioned last year. I can see how it gets round the permitted development aspect (if you own more than about 12 acres you can more or less build whatever barns, units etc. you like), but I don't see how it addresses the crucial point of actually putting a dwelling on the land. I can even see it as making things more difficult, since if lots of bods club together then you have to win permission for each "family unit" and I can see the planners arguing that, okay we can see that one family have to live on site to look after the livestock or whatever, but you don't need everybody.cat.wasilewski@gmail.com wrote: Hi Tracy
There are a group of us in Oxford, looking for something similar (mixed woodland and pasture land) for a permaculture smallholding / low impact settlement relatively close to Oxford. I had been put off by ridiculously high land prices but I went on a great course at the weekend at LILI near Buckingham by Simon Fairlie formerly of Tinkers Bubble and currently of Chapter 7 / the Land is Ours Movement, he was discussing the realities of buying agricultural land and smallholding it - including how to get that elusive planning permission for a dwelling - without getting an enforcement act slapped on your ass! The trick seems to be to buy a large plot (at least 15 - 20 acres) collectively, and split it into individual smallholdings if so desired once the permitted development rights to build a barn, tracks etc have been utilised and to prove a need to be on the land. He also stressed that there was some sense in keeping some elements of the land communal - i.e. woodland so large scale tasks are done together and to avoid duplication of 'kit'. If you want to meet up and discuss maybe it's time we revitalised the Oxford meet ups. (I've been underground for an age due to new job, too much work travel, a house move and dumping my ex!)
I got some great materials from the course - you're more than welcome to borrow them.
Hope you and Mike are both well
Cat x
BTW, was anything mentioned about Pembroke and Lammas?
Peter.
P.S. We might also be interested in something the Milton Keynes side of Oxford.
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Miss Madam
- Posts: 415
- Joined: 24 Nov 2005, 11:09
- Location: Oxford, UK
Agricultural land
Hi
Basically Simon's advice was to figure out the infrastructure plan beforehand and put it in place i.e. barns, outbuildings, polytunnels, tracks etc using the permitted development rights, before then legally subdividing the plot into individual smallholdings. Each of which would then apply individually for a right to remain on the land depending on their activities whether that be acting as a security guard for expensive stock, raising delicate livestock, charcoal making etc. The trick is to argue that your unique skills are needed (i.e. so the planners can't say why can't your neighbours watch your chickens for you) and that it wouldn't be fair to ask your neighbours as the stock / crops are your responsibility. He also gave some great info on the new low impact development policy in Pembrokeshire Planning District's local plan.
It sounds like we have a few interested parties. From memory Mike and Tracey are the Milton Keynes side of Oxford, so maybe we all ought to meet up for a natter?
Cat x
Basically Simon's advice was to figure out the infrastructure plan beforehand and put it in place i.e. barns, outbuildings, polytunnels, tracks etc using the permitted development rights, before then legally subdividing the plot into individual smallholdings. Each of which would then apply individually for a right to remain on the land depending on their activities whether that be acting as a security guard for expensive stock, raising delicate livestock, charcoal making etc. The trick is to argue that your unique skills are needed (i.e. so the planners can't say why can't your neighbours watch your chickens for you) and that it wouldn't be fair to ask your neighbours as the stock / crops are your responsibility. He also gave some great info on the new low impact development policy in Pembrokeshire Planning District's local plan.
It sounds like we have a few interested parties. From memory Mike and Tracey are the Milton Keynes side of Oxford, so maybe we all ought to meet up for a natter?
Cat x
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Blue Peter
- Posts: 1939
- Joined: 24 Nov 2005, 11:09
- Location: Milton Keynes
Re: Agricultural land
Yes a meet might be a good idea.cat.wasilewski@gmail.com wrote:Hi
Basically Simon's advice was to figure out the infrastructure plan beforehand and put it in place i.e. barns, outbuildings, polytunnels, tracks etc using the permitted development rights, before then legally subdividing the plot into individual smallholdings. Each of which would then apply individually for a right to remain on the land depending on their activities whether that be acting as a security guard for expensive stock, raising delicate livestock, charcoal making etc. The trick is to argue that your unique skills are needed (i.e. so the planners can't say why can't your neighbours watch your chickens for you) and that it wouldn't be fair to ask your neighbours as the stock / crops are your responsibility. He also gave some great info on the new low impact development policy in Pembrokeshire Planning District's local plan.
It sounds like we have a few interested parties. From memory Mike and Tracey are the Milton Keynes side of Oxford, so maybe we all ought to meet up for a natter?
Cat x
The last time I heard about Pembrokeshire, the policy (which I think is quite strict, but others seemed to think might be applied more laxly) had actually been tested. Has Lammas actually gone ahead do you know? or are we still waiting for them to test the water?
Peter.
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Miss Madam
- Posts: 415
- Joined: 24 Nov 2005, 11:09
- Location: Oxford, UK
Lammas
Hi
Simon is actually assessing the applicants to Lammas - in terms of the viability of their smallholding plans - at the moment. I think the final application for phase 1 (ten households if I'm not mistaken or some 'ink like that...) is due to go before the Planners in April. There are also two plots remaining in the first phase. I'd go for one myself but I'd miss the proximity of cultural centres of any size, and I don't see why I have to move to Wales to be sustainable. No offence to Wales, I just love where I am - and my mates, and don't really want to hunker off to the back of beyond.
Well maybe we ought to organise a meet up. Anywhere on a bus route or cyclable from Oxford is cool with me. I'm meeting up with some Permaculture friends next Tuesday to discuss the topic and perhaps the option of a community land trust. So maybe after then?
Cat x
Simon is actually assessing the applicants to Lammas - in terms of the viability of their smallholding plans - at the moment. I think the final application for phase 1 (ten households if I'm not mistaken or some 'ink like that...) is due to go before the Planners in April. There are also two plots remaining in the first phase. I'd go for one myself but I'd miss the proximity of cultural centres of any size, and I don't see why I have to move to Wales to be sustainable. No offence to Wales, I just love where I am - and my mates, and don't really want to hunker off to the back of beyond.
Well maybe we ought to organise a meet up. Anywhere on a bus route or cyclable from Oxford is cool with me. I'm meeting up with some Permaculture friends next Tuesday to discuss the topic and perhaps the option of a community land trust. So maybe after then?
Cat x