Brexit process

[UndercoverElephant]

Extending Article 50 is not in the unilateral power of the UK.

Every EU member state will need to agree.

They will agree. The EU is very keen to avoid no deal, because it has no solution to the Irish border problem either.

And the EU has always negotiated with governments not backdoor parliaments. I wonder how keen the EU will be to facilitate a further extension if the expressed wish of the UK government is not to extend Article 50.

That UK government has no majority and is going to have to fight an election very soon. All sorts of things could happen after that.

[Lord Beria3]

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... -good-bets

More polling data.

UE, don't look

[RevdTess]

And, if we get a 2nd referendum, what happens if Leave win again? Just floating that option around since the overwhelming assumption is that a 2nd referendum would lead to a Remain victory.

Is that an overwhelming assumption? That's not been my experience. If it were the overwhelming assumption of Leave voters and politicians that Remain would win a second referendum, then logically they would need to accept that their mandate from the referendum had already gone.

The referendum mandate doesn't stand alone, it receives its force as a snapshot of public opinion. If the 'overwhelming assumption' is that public opinion has reversed, then the referendum result can be legitimately considered irrelevant and deprecated.

This is why most Leavers I know insist that Leave would win again, and with a greater margin, not least because many who previously voted Remain would join them in defending the initial democratic will of the people.

If there did happen to be a second referendum that was 'no deal' vs 'remain', I've no idea who would win, but I'd certainly become one of the outraged voters if the result weren't implemented after such a clear and unambiguous choice. (I accept that many think the first vote was also clear and unambiguous of course).

[clv101]

Extending Article 50 is not in the unilateral power of the UK.

Every EU member state will need to agree.

Presumably if our requested extension was rejected, the UK can unilaterally revoke Article 50, only to re-invoke at a later data of our choosing.

I've just pre-ordered it. I have no idea whether Harris has read Greer but it is very Greerist.

I doubt anybody in a few centuries will be talking about Brexit!

Likewise, I've ordered it. I read his Pompeii a few months ago.

[cubes]

The reason it has not happened is because of what these c*nts in parliament fear will be the response in the electorate if it happens.

If it does happen now, that response will be every bit as bad as they feared and worse.

To be honest, I find it simply amazing how blasé is the attitude of some people to the fact the I and millions of others like me are about to have our votes stolen from us. As if they think there will be no consequences to this and we will all just go back to normal.

Get it into your thick f'ing head - THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE DO NOT WANT NO-DEAL BREXIT as well as the majority of MPs. There will also be no civil war/revolution if brexit is cancelled. Some major civil unrest perhaps.

[Little John]

The reason it has not happened is because of what these c*nts in parliament fear will be the response in the electorate if it happens.

If it does happen now, that response will be every bit as bad as they feared and worse.

To be honest, I find it simply amazing how blasé is the attitude of some people to the fact the I and millions of others like me are about to have our votes stolen from us. As if they think there will be no consequences to this and we will all just go back to normal.

Get it into your thick f'ing head - THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE DO NOT WANT NO-DEAL BREXIT as well as the majority of MPs. There will also be no civil war/revolution if brexit is cancelled. Some major civil unrest perhaps.

You f***ing c*nt.

You think you and you ilk can steal the democratic votes of over half the country do you? You want to be f***ing grateful you are not stood next to me right now you piece of shit

[UndercoverElephant]

Oh boy. And this is still just setting the scene. The coming election is going to be the biggest political event of any of our lives. This is history happening.

[Catweazle]

The reason it has not happened is because of what these c*nts in parliament fear will be the response in the electorate if it happens.

If it does happen now, that response will be every bit as bad as they feared and worse.

To be honest, I find it simply amazing how blasé is the attitude of some people to the fact the I and millions of others like me are about to have our votes stolen from us. As if they think there will be no consequences to this and we will all just go back to normal.

Get it into your thick f'ing head - THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE DO NOT WANT NO-DEAL BREXIT as well as the majority of MPs. There will also be no civil war/revolution if brexit is cancelled. Some major civil unrest perhaps.

You f***ing c*nt.

You think you and you ilk can steal the democratic votes of over half the country do you? You want to be f***ing grateful you are not stood next to me right now pal

It's not about stealing your vote, it's pretty obvious that the brexiteers lied massively about the brexit process, and the benefits of it. Who knows who sponsored them and what their agendas were, but big money and foreign powers were involved.

Now it has become clear what a nightmare it will be, and many people are wondering if it was such a good idea.

In court a retrial can be ordered if significant evidence emerges, in civil law a contract becomes void if one party is misled by another, in elections a result can be ignored if there is vote rigging, and it seems to me that the Brexit vote could be cast into doubt because of the disinformation given to the voters.

[Snail]

The utter difference in perspectives is shocking to me.

[Little John]

Get it into your thick f'ing head - THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE DO NOT WANT NO-DEAL BREXIT as well as the majority of MPs. There will also be no civil war/revolution if brexit is cancelled. Some major civil unrest perhaps.

You f***ing c*nt.

You think you and you ilk can steal the democratic votes of over half the country do you? You want to be f***ing grateful you are not stood next to me right now pal

It's not about stealing your vote, it's pretty obvious that the brexiteers lied massively about the brexit process, and the benefits of it. Who knows who sponsored them and what their agendas were, but big money and foreign powers were involved.

Now it has become clear what a nightmare it will be, and many people are wondering if it was such a good idea.

In court a retrial can be ordered if significant evidence emerges, in civil law a contract becomes void if one party is misled by another, in elections a result can be ignored if there is vote rigging, and it seems to me that the Brexit vote could be cast into doubt because of the disinformation given to the voters.

f***ing bullshit. Any **** can say the other side was lied to in any election. You really think that shit is going to wash?

[UndercoverElephant]

So Beria....still think Cummings and Johnson have played this well?

Looks to me like Cummings has totally f***ed this up, and Johnson shouldn't have taken his advice. They assumed Labour couldn't possibly refuse an election. Quite a few tories, and even supposed neutrals (eg Emily Maitliss on Newsnight) saying "He looks weak. Scared of an election, because he might lose it." But he doesn't. He looks like the man who is dictating the terms, because that's exactly what he is. Johnson needs Corbyn to agree to a pre-brexit election, but Corbyn can just sit back and force Johnson to go to Brussels and ask for a three month extension.

What can Johnson do? Nothing. If he tries to repeal the FTPA he will fail. We could even see him forced to call a vote of no confidence in his own government, trying to lose it, and not even succeed in doing that.

I think he's going to reluctantly accept that he's got no choice but to seek the extension, and with the extension agreed and tomorrow's bill on the statute book, a general election will be called for November.

I also now think the tories are going to lose that election badly, because I think relations between the tories and brexit party are going to break down.

[Little John]

So Beria....still think Cummings and Johnson have played this well?

Looks to me like Cummings has totally f***ed this up, and Johnson shouldn't have taken his advice. They assumed Labour couldn't possibly refuse an election. Quite a few tories, and even supposed neutrals (eg Emily Maitliss on Newsnight) saying "He looks weak. Scared of an election, because he might lose it." But he doesn't. He looks like the man who is dictating the terms, because that's exactly what he is. Johnson needs Corbyn to agree to a pre-brexit election, but Corbyn can just sit back and force Johnson to go to Brussels and ask for a three month extension.

What can Johnson do? Nothing. If he tries to repeal the FTPA he will fail. We could even see him forced to call a vote of no confidence in his own government, trying to lose it, and not even succeed in doing that.

I think he's going to reluctantly accept that he's got no choice but to seek the extension, and with the extension agreed and tomorrow's bill on the statute book, a general election will be called for November.

I also now think the tories are going to lose that election badly, because I think relations between the tories and brexit party are going to break down.

You think that Corbyn forcing Johnson to go an ask for an extension makes him look "strong" in the eyes of the electorate do you? And not like the weasel opportunist he is, prepared to play politics instead of putting his country first?

You think the electorate would not slaughter him for that?

[UndercoverElephant]

You think that Corbyn forcing Johnson to go an ask for an extension makes him look "strong" in the eyes of the electorate do you?

Yes. They were sold a story about Dominic Cummings the "evil genius" who was going to sweep into Downing Street and make sure the Johnson administration was was going to wipe the floor with Corbyn, and take the country out of the EU, come what may. What has actually happened is that the two of the wheels have come off at the first bend, because of a major strategic mistake. Did they really not see this coming?

Johnson is now at Corbyn's mercy. Johnson desperately needs an election, but Corbyn gets to choose the timing.

And not like the weasel opportunist he is, prepared to play politics instead of putting his country first? You think the electorate would not slaughter him for that?

Wait for the next round of polls. I think we are going to watch the tory vote start draining straight back to the brexit party. Labour certainly won't lose any more ground, and may take some back because people give Corbyn credit for outwitting Johnson.

This does not bode well for Johnson's prospects in an election. Current events suggest that Labour has thought things through more carefully.

[Lord Beria3]

Boris just needs to say he has no intention of requesting an extension.

Better to go down fighting. Brexit party voters distrust Boris intentions, they worry be is May II - everything he is doing is showing them that he is committed to leaving which is removing that distrust factor.

As per BlondeMoney analysis it will be a war against the judiciary next assuming his ge request is defeated.

As for Cummings, this legislative approach was always going to happen whatever Cummings said or not.

This is high stakes poker and neither side has won it yet.

[UndercoverElephant]

Boris just needs to say he has no intention of requesting an extension.

After the new bill has become law? You think the answer to Johnson's problems is to defy the law of the land?

There's no "just" about that. The Prime Minister can't "just" blatantly break the law. If he tries to go down this path, he's going to crash and burn really quickly. And he's got nowhere to hide from an election.

Better to go down fighting. Brexit party voters distrust Boris intentions, they worry be is May II - everything he is doing is showing them that he is committed to leaving which is removing that distrust factor.

He's a failure, and that's all. He came in promising to be different, but what he's actually delivered is more of the same.

As per BlondeMoney analysis it will be a war against the judiciary next assuming his ge request is defeated.

As for Cummings, this legislative approach was always going to happen whatever Cummings said or not.

This is high stakes poker and neither side has won it yet.

Wait for the next polls! Johnson is going to sink like a stone.