Brexit process

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 17 Aug 2019, 08:53

I wash salads grown in my own greenhouse in "chlorinated water" - the stuff that comes out of my tap. Why not? I drink the stuff.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 17 Aug 2019, 10:42

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... and-no-cor

It's all about PM Corbyn vs No deal now. The latest in a long string of binary choices that eventually get forced out of the woodwork. Poll suggests the public would prefer no deal and no Corbyn, but I suspect parliament will decide otherwise. Not least because they will fear that if we go to no deal, they'll end up with Corbyn anyway.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 17 Aug 2019, 12:32

adam2 wrote:.............And as for washing chicken in chlorinated water, that is also a sensible way to kill bacteria that cause food poisoning, the only sensible objection to the procedure is that it might well be used to cover up earlier lapses in hygienic food handling.

The only problem with that is it doesn't kill all the bacteria and food poisoning is a more significant problem in the USA than in UK and Europe despite the chlorine wash. There was a TV program about it a couple of weeks ago and the hygiene standards in some US chicken processing plants is abysmal.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 17 Aug 2019, 17:38

UndercoverElephant wrote:https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... and-no-cor

It's all about PM Corbyn vs No deal now. The latest in a long string of binary choices that eventually get forced out of the woodwork. Poll suggests the public would prefer no deal and no Corbyn, but I suspect parliament will decide otherwise. Not least because they will fear that if we go to no deal, they'll end up with Corbyn anyway.

Anyone who thinks Corbyn's Labour party has a chance with the working class now are deluded.

The dead Flag

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FppMcr ... pp=desktop

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 17 Aug 2019, 20:25

Little John wrote:Anyone who thinks Corbyn's Labour party has a chance with the working class now are deluded.

You think they're going to vote for Boris de Pfefell Johnson instead?

They have nowhere else to go. Johnson doesn't give a shit about the working class. They are merely something he might use to step on while climbing even higher into privilege.

Corbyn has been put in an impossible position, and he's playing it the best he can. And he could yet end up delivering brexit. To do so he needs to end up as caretaker prime minister, then win an election, then find an escape from backstop impasse which involves a re-united Ireland as the solution to the border problem. It's a long shot, but it is not impossible. Are the tories, in opposition, going to vote against a "Labour Brexit" which could actually work? I think he could get a majority for it.

This is what the establishment fears most of all. Not just a Corbyn government, but a Corbyn government that delivers brexit and brings in popular reforms which actually help the working class. If he were to pull that off, it could transform british politics.

stumuz1 · Post by **stumuz1** » 17 Aug 2019, 21:34

UndercoverElephant wrote:then win an election, then find an escape from backstop impasse which involves a re-united Ireland as the solution to the border problem.

Sorry to be xenophobic, but you are so South East of England!

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 17 Aug 2019, 23:50

kenneal - lagger wrote:
adam2 wrote:.............And as for washing chicken in chlorinated water, that is also a sensible way to kill bacteria that cause food poisoning, the only sensible objection to the procedure is that it might well be used to cover up earlier lapses in hygienic food handling.
The only problem with that is it doesn't kill all the bacteria and food poisoning is a more significant problem in the USA than in UK and Europe despite the chlorine wash. There was a TV program about it a couple of weeks ago and the hygiene standards in some US chicken processing plants is abysmal.

I suspect that anyone that thinks chicken processed in the UK or the EU is automatically safe to eat raw is mistaken.Anyone who has ever prepared a chicken from live to table will know how hard it is to accomplish this without any of the contents of the digestive track coming into contact with the finished product. Once splashed you can wash it off with clean water or disinfected (chlorine or something as effective) water but you can never be sure so cooking to a temp. that insures that all the effected surfaces have now been rendered sterile is the only safe course for the cook.
As much as I'd like the US processors to clean up their act and use cleaner practices to begin with I will never assume they have gotten it completely right and will handle my store bought chicken accordingly.
Feel free to treat your supper anyway you wish.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 18 Aug 2019, 00:09

I didn't say anything about eating chicken raw anywhere. The TV program in question showed bad practise in handling both the chicken and the packaging. The bad techniques would lead to contamination being spread from dirty surfaces to both clean packaging and supposedly washed chicken in the packaging. Parts of the packaging plant were awash with dirty water and chicken offcuts and the drains were blocked. The place would have been closed down in the UK.

The packaging would spread contaimination from the plant through the shops into the home and then to other foodstuffs. cooking the chicken wouldn't stop the contamination spreading.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 18 Aug 2019, 00:51

stumuz1 wrote:
UndercoverElephant wrote:then win an election, then find an escape from backstop impasse which involves a re-united Ireland as the solution to the border problem.
Sorry to be xenophobic, but you are so South East of England!

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 18 Aug 2019, 01:46

There was a Leave.UK post on Facebook pointing out that Switzerland which is outside the EU has open borders with five EU nations with, seemingly, no problems. Why then can't the UK, in the form of Northern Ireland, have an open border with Ireland?

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 18 Aug 2019, 02:02

UndercoverElephant wrote:
Little John wrote:Anyone who thinks Corbyn's Labour party has a chance with the working class now are deluded.
You think they're going to vote for Boris de Pfefell Johnson instead?

They have nowhere else to go. Johnson doesn't give a shit about the working class. They are merely something he might use to step on while climbing even higher into privilege.

Corbyn has been put in an impossible position, and he's playing it the best he can. And he could yet end up delivering brexit. To do so he needs to end up as caretaker prime minister, then win an election, then find an escape from backstop impasse which involves a re-united Ireland as the solution to the border problem. It's a long shot, but it is not impossible. Are the tories, in opposition, going to vote against a "Labour Brexit" which could actually work? I think he could get a majority for it.

This is what the establishment fears most of all. Not just a Corbyn government, but a Corbyn government that delivers brexit and brings in popular reforms which actually help the working class. If he were to pull that off, it could transform british politics.

Corbyn has, first of all, to get any other party in Parliament to agree to him becoming temporary PM. Not likely on current indications.

Win an election when much of the Labour vote in the north of England is likely to go to the Brexit Party. So too would the Tory vote so almost guaranteeing BP wins in those constituencies.

It will take about thirty years at least for the Nationalists in NI to take over government there via their higher birthrate and win a vote for the reunification of Ireland. I doubt that the government of Eire would be too keen on a reunification in reality as they would swap IRA violence for Unionist terrorist violence in the South as well as the North.

Any renegotiation of Brexit by the EU is highly unlikely to give much more than has already be given by the EU and that wouldn't really give us a true Brexit so it would still be very difficult to get it through Parliament assuming that there are still a sizeable rumps of Brexiteers and Remainers in a new parliament.

All in all, Corbyn doesn't stand a hope in hell of getting elected nor of getting any sort of Labour Brexit through a new parliament.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 18 Aug 2019, 09:16

kenneal - lagger wrote:There was a Leave.UK post on Facebook pointing out that Switzerland which is outside the EU has open borders with five EU nations with, seemingly, no problems. Why then can't the UK, in the form of Northern Ireland, have an open border with Ireland?

Switzerland does not have open borders with the EU. Not for goods. Only for people, because it is in the Schengen area.

https://www.ft.com/content/2d30482c-da7 ... 4b1c09b482

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 18 Aug 2019, 10:35

kenneal - lagger wrote:I didn't say anything about eating chicken raw anywhere. The TV program in question showed bad practise in handling both the chicken and the packaging. The bad techniques would lead to contamination being spread from dirty surfaces to both clean packaging and supposedly washed chicken in the packaging. Parts of the packaging plant were awash with dirty water and chicken offcuts and the drains were blocked. The place would have been closed down in the UK.

The packaging would spread contaimination from the plant through the shops into the home and then to other foodstuffs. cooking the chicken wouldn't stop the contamination spreading.

Bad practices are not confined to the US. Have you seen programmes about the UK bad practices? There have been instances where processors have removed the date labels from packages and replaced them with later dates. However, given the state of health of many people in the US, I would not welcome any of their ingestible products to the UK.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 18 Aug 2019, 17:33

UndercoverElephant wrote:....
https://www.ft.com/content/2d30482c-da7 ... 4b1c09b482

It's behind a paywall so could be have a prÃ©cis please, UE.

As far as I know there is no customs stop on the Swiss border and goods can pass straight through.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 18 Aug 2019, 17:36

woodburner wrote:.................Bad practices are not confined to the US. Have you seen programmes about the UK bad practices? There have been instances where processors have removed the date labels from packages and replaced them with later dates. However, given the state of health of many people in the US, I would not welcome any of their ingestible products to the UK.

I have more confidence in the UK system catching up with bad practise than I do a US system where the political push is for less regulation and where regulation is frowned on.