Making the polluter pay for the transition to net zero:
https://policy.friendsoftheearth.uk/pub ... n-net-zero
Interesting to see the estimated additional annual expenditure....
No1: Home insulation and low carbon heating @ £10 billion
No2: Cycle, walking and public transport @ £6 billion
No3: Subsidy for electric cars and vans @ £2 billion
Small fry, in the greater scheme of things....
HS2 currently estimated at £56 billion....
FOE - Making the polluter pay for the transition to net zero
Moderator: Peak Moderation
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emordnilap
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Palm Oil is a difficult one - what would we use instead ?emordnilap wrote:I’d like to see a massive tax on palm oil too. Treat it like fossil fuel: tax it almost out of existence.
RSPO goes some way towards addressing the issue, but implementation is weak IMO...
It goes back to population again - people will always want cheap food, cosmetics etc. etc.
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emordnilap
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kenneal - lagger
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emordnilap
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Another key avoidance strategy (far, far easier said than done) is refusing plastic whenever possible. 99% of plastic comes from fossil fuel - increasingly from fracked sources.
Way more difficult than avoiding palm oil!
You can make a start by seeking out shops that sell loose goods (fruit, veg., beans, grains, nuts etc); make sure you take your own bags, containers and clean re-used plastic bags.
We've been using the same washing-up bottle for a couple of decades and no usable bag is discarded; they're rinsed and re-used until they're unusable.
Way more difficult than avoiding palm oil!
You can make a start by seeking out shops that sell loose goods (fruit, veg., beans, grains, nuts etc); make sure you take your own bags, containers and clean re-used plastic bags.
We've been using the same washing-up bottle for a couple of decades and no usable bag is discarded; they're rinsed and re-used until they're unusable.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
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emordnilap
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Ethical Consumer has a list of palm oil-free/RSPO suppliers, though I can tell it's not up-to-date and I would only go for the -free ones myself (I'm a compulsive label-checker). For instance, Naturli isn't mentioned.Mark wrote:Palm Oil is a difficult one - what would we use instead ?emordnilap wrote:I’d like to see a massive tax on palm oil too. Treat it like fossil fuel: tax it almost out of existence.
RSPO goes some way towards addressing the issue, but implementation is weak IMO...
It goes back to population again - people will always want cheap food, cosmetics etc. etc.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
Nice link, emordnilap...
Leads on to this link, but slight gripe with their List of 'Alternate Names for Palm Oil': https://orangutanfoundation.org.au/palm-oil/
In fact, it's mostly a list of chemicals that could use Palm Oil in their manufacture.
For example, Stearates could be made from Palm Oil, or they could be made from Tallow, but that then offends our Jewish/Muslim friends....
Also, we need to remember that Palm oil is the most efficient producer of oil per hectare of cultivated land. Coconut, the second most efficient crop after palm, produces less than half as much oil per hectare. Soy oil, the second most produced oil after palm, is less than a tenth as efficient.
It still all comes back to population/consumption....
Leads on to this link, but slight gripe with their List of 'Alternate Names for Palm Oil': https://orangutanfoundation.org.au/palm-oil/
In fact, it's mostly a list of chemicals that could use Palm Oil in their manufacture.
For example, Stearates could be made from Palm Oil, or they could be made from Tallow, but that then offends our Jewish/Muslim friends....
Also, we need to remember that Palm oil is the most efficient producer of oil per hectare of cultivated land. Coconut, the second most efficient crop after palm, produces less than half as much oil per hectare. Soy oil, the second most produced oil after palm, is less than a tenth as efficient.
It still all comes back to population/consumption....
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kenneal - lagger
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But also remember that converting tropical rain forest to palm oil plantation produces masses of CO2 to such an extent that the use of palm oil for fuel making is worse than using fossil fuel. If we banned the use of biodeisel and vegetable oil derived petrol we would go a long way towards removing the need for increasing vegetable oil productionMark wrote:..........Also, we need to remember that Palm oil is the most efficient producer of oil per hectare of cultivated land. ....
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
I agree - don't get me wrong, I'm not promoting Palm Oil, or the use of it in Biofuels.kenneal - lagger wrote:But also remember that converting tropical rain forest to palm oil plantation produces masses of CO2 to such an extent that the use of palm oil for fuel making is worse than using fossil fuel. If we banned the use of biodeisel and vegetable oil derived petrol we would go a long way towards removing the need for increasing vegetable oil productionMark wrote:..........Also, we need to remember that Palm oil is the most efficient producer of oil per hectare of cultivated land. ....
Don't have a problem with Used Cooking Oil (UCO) though....