What's your vested interest?
Moderator: Peak Moderation
Electricity also frees us from drudgery - the washing machine and the fridge are the last two machines I will want to try to keep going. Just imagine doing the weekly wash by hand! I'm also a big fan of electricity for lighting! I think it has been one of the key factors in facilitating education in poorer countries as it allows people to study in the evenings.
Interesting stuff, I am also keen to keep the electric society! but have I misunderstood the encroaching effects of peak oil?
I thought that the black gold would probably never actually run out, it will tail off, an inability to get enough good quality cheap oil out of the ground.
So we will probably end up having power cuts on domestic and business use, perhaps even rationing at the petrol stations, an end to petrol hungry cars and cheap flights, we will have to cycle more use public transport, see a decline in food from far off lands on the shop shelves together with higher prices and even shortages.
Hundreds of acres of set aside land will need to be brought back into use. Perhaps biofuel will be rationed to farmers to keep the tractors running. Airships (could come back) and boats could keep European trade viable. Locally allotments and personal vegetable patches (tot up the acres of back gardens parks and so on in town and cities, lots of land is currently wasted) will be essential, perhaps the TV wont be on 24hrs 7 days a week (bring back the test card I say) fair well tumble dryers and dishwashers, ta ta mass packaging, so long cheap TV?s, DVD?s PC?s battery hungry gadgets an so on. We will have to learn to mend and make do again, instead of wear stuff out and throw it away. Its perhaps similar to a 1960-70s, this is bound to mean a recession or worse, but also this downturn will lead to a reduction in the burn of energy and a scramble to invest in alternatives to try and take up the energy lag. (lets hope that coal and nuclear are not seen as the saviours) Of course we can never again match the energy we got from oil, it was a 150 year blip of cheap energy, the writing was always on the wall and we will have to adapt.
If you look at the chart and graphs of oil consumption 20 years ago we used far fewer billions of barrels per day than we do know and we got by, OK there were a few less people and far less high teck stuff. Look at the way we waste our energy today, simple example, I was in a corner shop yesterday and above every isle was a flat screen TV telling me the price of beer etc, cameras in every corner, and never ending strip lights, I passed the same shop when it was closed and all that stuff was still on! Bottom line is that there is a heck of a lot of slack to be taken up on the waste front. We are a fair way from the end of the electrical age but we are a heck sight nearer to the age of cutting back and hopefully an era of some common sense. With regard to pointless unbounded consumption, this perhaps is one of the areas where simple economics may sort some things out, high energy bills and high business rates, how do we save money to pay the rates and stay in business?
TURN OFF THE LIGHTS EINSTIEN.
I have only touched on the likely changes Im sure many of you will have different views from doom and gloom to optimism, I am in the glass half full camp, we have a very complicated society and its almost impossible to tell how things will turn out, for that you need a crystal ball.
I thought that the black gold would probably never actually run out, it will tail off, an inability to get enough good quality cheap oil out of the ground.
So we will probably end up having power cuts on domestic and business use, perhaps even rationing at the petrol stations, an end to petrol hungry cars and cheap flights, we will have to cycle more use public transport, see a decline in food from far off lands on the shop shelves together with higher prices and even shortages.
Hundreds of acres of set aside land will need to be brought back into use. Perhaps biofuel will be rationed to farmers to keep the tractors running. Airships (could come back) and boats could keep European trade viable. Locally allotments and personal vegetable patches (tot up the acres of back gardens parks and so on in town and cities, lots of land is currently wasted) will be essential, perhaps the TV wont be on 24hrs 7 days a week (bring back the test card I say) fair well tumble dryers and dishwashers, ta ta mass packaging, so long cheap TV?s, DVD?s PC?s battery hungry gadgets an so on. We will have to learn to mend and make do again, instead of wear stuff out and throw it away. Its perhaps similar to a 1960-70s, this is bound to mean a recession or worse, but also this downturn will lead to a reduction in the burn of energy and a scramble to invest in alternatives to try and take up the energy lag. (lets hope that coal and nuclear are not seen as the saviours) Of course we can never again match the energy we got from oil, it was a 150 year blip of cheap energy, the writing was always on the wall and we will have to adapt.
If you look at the chart and graphs of oil consumption 20 years ago we used far fewer billions of barrels per day than we do know and we got by, OK there were a few less people and far less high teck stuff. Look at the way we waste our energy today, simple example, I was in a corner shop yesterday and above every isle was a flat screen TV telling me the price of beer etc, cameras in every corner, and never ending strip lights, I passed the same shop when it was closed and all that stuff was still on! Bottom line is that there is a heck of a lot of slack to be taken up on the waste front. We are a fair way from the end of the electrical age but we are a heck sight nearer to the age of cutting back and hopefully an era of some common sense. With regard to pointless unbounded consumption, this perhaps is one of the areas where simple economics may sort some things out, high energy bills and high business rates, how do we save money to pay the rates and stay in business?
TURN OFF THE LIGHTS EINSTIEN.
I have only touched on the likely changes Im sure many of you will have different views from doom and gloom to optimism, I am in the glass half full camp, we have a very complicated society and its almost impossible to tell how things will turn out, for that you need a crystal ball.
Last edited by Silas on 05 Jul 2011, 10:25, edited 1 time in total.
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Blue Peter
- Posts: 1939
- Joined: 24 Nov 2005, 11:09
- Location: Milton Keynes
Isn't that the problem, though? We don't have a, say, 1980 society, with simple "arithmetic additions" of everything invented/produced/done since, such that we could easily cut out the new stuff and live happy 1980 lives again. All that easy slack in the economy is someone's job, some part in the great machine; cut it out and there is pain,silas wrote: we have a very complicated society and its almost impossible to tell how things will turn out, for that you need a crystal ball.
Peter.
I guess my vested interest is the wellbeing of my kid(s). I have one kid, and another due any day now. I want them to suffer as little as possible from the coming 'transition'. I can see a good life for people after a nasty post peak transitional stage IF we manage to leave enough fuel in the ground to mitigate catastrophic global warming. I want to make the period of transition as un traumatic as I can for them. Unfortunately I have no idea how best to do this. 
On a more immediate level, my family all live 150 odd miles away, all in different directions. I would be sad to think that I would not see them unless I spent two days cycling.
As far as the electricity goes, I'd miss the fridge and the freezer most. I think those are the things in the house that we most need for survival, but often overlook. The dishwasher and washing machine are luxury items.
Oh, and hello everyone. This is my first post.
On a more immediate level, my family all live 150 odd miles away, all in different directions. I would be sad to think that I would not see them unless I spent two days cycling.
As far as the electricity goes, I'd miss the fridge and the freezer most. I think those are the things in the house that we most need for survival, but often overlook. The dishwasher and washing machine are luxury items.
Oh, and hello everyone. This is my first post.
Hi Blue
Pain indeed, unavoidable pain, as I said recession or worse, civil unrest blackouts looting, an inevitably difficult period is approaching in the coming decades it?s clear that we have come a long way since the 1980s, and indeed the 1970s, as clear as the billions of barrels of oil that were burnt year on year to get us in to the current situation.
However in the not to distant future we will have only the same (or smaller) pot of energy as in those past decade?s and we will have to make our society function no choice, that?s the problem, so sorry flat screen TV for shop isle manufacturer your sacked, sorry dishwasher production line bye, Christmas shopping in New York, think again, sorry new staff for Sanstead/Heathrow, ground crew, Pilots, Baggage handlers, no jobs, telephone sanitizers and many more pile them all on the ?B? ark?. BUT hello solar panel engineer, wave energy boffins, bike manufacturers, recycling plants workers, wind turbine engineer, farmers, gardeners, land workers cobblers, candlestick makers bakers, tailors, farriers, engineers, handymen, lumberjacks, foresters, farm shops, miners, railway workers, artisans and merchants, the opportunities are as endless as are the changes in the comfortable lives all of us have taken for granted.
I REMAIN POSITIVE
Pain indeed, unavoidable pain, as I said recession or worse, civil unrest blackouts looting, an inevitably difficult period is approaching in the coming decades it?s clear that we have come a long way since the 1980s, and indeed the 1970s, as clear as the billions of barrels of oil that were burnt year on year to get us in to the current situation.
However in the not to distant future we will have only the same (or smaller) pot of energy as in those past decade?s and we will have to make our society function no choice, that?s the problem, so sorry flat screen TV for shop isle manufacturer your sacked, sorry dishwasher production line bye, Christmas shopping in New York, think again, sorry new staff for Sanstead/Heathrow, ground crew, Pilots, Baggage handlers, no jobs, telephone sanitizers and many more pile them all on the ?B? ark?. BUT hello solar panel engineer, wave energy boffins, bike manufacturers, recycling plants workers, wind turbine engineer, farmers, gardeners, land workers cobblers, candlestick makers bakers, tailors, farriers, engineers, handymen, lumberjacks, foresters, farm shops, miners, railway workers, artisans and merchants, the opportunities are as endless as are the changes in the comfortable lives all of us have taken for granted.
I REMAIN POSITIVE
Hi SunnyJim, and welcome to PowerSwitch!
My vested interest is in electricity - I love electronic/electrically amplified music! Plus technological benefits like medicine, of course.
The other thing is farming - I don't want there to be so little food around that I have people climbing into my garden at night to nick my cabbages!
My vested interest is in electricity - I love electronic/electrically amplified music! Plus technological benefits like medicine, of course.
The other thing is farming - I don't want there to be so little food around that I have people climbing into my garden at night to nick my cabbages!
Andy Hunt
http://greencottage.burysolarclub.net
http://greencottage.burysolarclub.net
Eternal Sunshine wrote: I wouldn't want to worry you with the truth.
Hi SJ, welcome to the board. Have you calmed down a bit since a few weeks ago?
(for those unaware of the context behind that point, see here:
http://www.itsnoteasybeinggreen.org/for ... s&start=32
)
(for those unaware of the context behind that point, see here:
http://www.itsnoteasybeinggreen.org/for ... s&start=32
)
Last edited by Bandidoz on 07 Feb 2007, 15:15, edited 1 time in total.
Olduvai Theory (Updated) (Reviewed)
Easter Island - a warning from history : http://dieoff.org/page145.htm
Easter Island - a warning from history : http://dieoff.org/page145.htm
Heheh. Yeah, a bit.
It comes in waves you know? One minute your kind of living like a 'normal person' then you get the 'orrible feeling that you really should be DOING SOMETHING.
I think I'm slowly getting thorough to folks at work. And I've started a 'peak oil primer' that I'm sending out to all in my address book. That has had some good side effects, including some people that I haven't been in touch with for ages getting back to me. Not only that they get the peak oil thing, AND they've been through the whole waking up thing before me. My primer was 'old news'. Seems like more people are onto this than I thought, which I find encoraging.
I've listened to all the Soil Association conference MP3's and that has helped. I understand from a thread on here that you know Rob Hopkins? I think I may try to raise some awareness of PO in my village, and try to get some kind of a 'Transition Village' thing going. As far as I am aware there are only transition towns at the mo. Maybe we could be the first Transition Village
Thanks for all the support over on the INEBG forum. It's hard sometimes to keep the will to put a balanced view forward and not loose patience explaining the same old stuff over and over again.
It comes in waves you know? One minute your kind of living like a 'normal person' then you get the 'orrible feeling that you really should be DOING SOMETHING.
I think I'm slowly getting thorough to folks at work. And I've started a 'peak oil primer' that I'm sending out to all in my address book. That has had some good side effects, including some people that I haven't been in touch with for ages getting back to me. Not only that they get the peak oil thing, AND they've been through the whole waking up thing before me. My primer was 'old news'. Seems like more people are onto this than I thought, which I find encoraging.
I've listened to all the Soil Association conference MP3's and that has helped. I understand from a thread on here that you know Rob Hopkins? I think I may try to raise some awareness of PO in my village, and try to get some kind of a 'Transition Village' thing going. As far as I am aware there are only transition towns at the mo. Maybe we could be the first Transition Village
Thanks for all the support over on the INEBG forum. It's hard sometimes to keep the will to put a balanced view forward and not loose patience explaining the same old stuff over and over again.
Haven't been over there for a while . . . must have a look to see what's happening in my 'alter ego' form Solar Bud.SunnyJim wrote: Thanks for all the support over on the INEBG forum. It's hard sometimes to keep the will to put a balanced view forward and not loose patience explaining the same old stuff over and over again.
Andy Hunt
http://greencottage.burysolarclub.net
http://greencottage.burysolarclub.net
Eternal Sunshine wrote: I wouldn't want to worry you with the truth.
Yep!SunnyJim wrote:Ah! Hello to you too then.... still knockin' out the tunes?
Check out my latest cabinet buster . . .
http://solarbud.absoluteness.info (right click and 'save as')
Nice to see you over here! There are quite a few PowerSwitchers on INEBG, but we don't often get defectors from the other 'camp' . . .
Sit down . . . here, have a whisky. You're amongst friends now!!
Andy Hunt
http://greencottage.burysolarclub.net
http://greencottage.burysolarclub.net
Eternal Sunshine wrote: I wouldn't want to worry you with the truth.