Brexit process

[Mark]

Italy will demand more banking troubles be transferred to the ECB. Eire will demand more promises on compensation when its economy takes a dive, Malta will want leniency on sanctions for looking the other way on shooting journalists. Poland will want to sack its independent judges without rebuke (insert country and concessions from the commission) etc etc etc

and of course, Glorious Blighty doesn't have any of these issues...
These type of problems only lie with those nasty European types....?
But we'll soon be grovelling for Trade Deals with countries doing far worse....?

As an aside, assume you got that lovely contract with the French client....?
No questions raised about Brexit...??

[stumuz1]

and of course, Glorious Blighty doesn't have any of these issues..

Blighty has plenty of issues, but a sovereign parliament can work them out. The left behinds may get a voice.

These type of problems only lie with those nasty European types....?

If you are referring to European people, they are not nasty. If you are referring to the EU commission/self serving cabal, they are demonstrably a nasty bit of work. Ref Greece to save German/French banks.

But we'll soon be grovelling for Trade Deals with countries doing far worse....?

Trade deals only get signed when they are mutually beneficial.

As an aside, assume you got that lovely contract with the French client....?
No questions raised about Brexit...??

Mark ol' friend. The French would rather drill a hole in their foot then give my company the steam of their piss.

However, the legal service I provide to the French is, in France , a quasi government function. The only reason they give the work to me is the fact that am massively cheaper and quicker then the monolith bureaucratic French firm.

The reaction of the French is always France first. Now one of the two major bill payers is leaving, we shall see how the ideology fares. Think Macrons Eurobonds idea.....sniggers.

[Mark]

and of course, Glorious Blighty doesn't have any of these issues..

Blighty has plenty of issues, but a sovereign parliament can work them out. The left behinds may get a voice.

Like supporting a rubbish football team, it's the hope that gets you......

[Mark]

But we'll soon be grovelling for Trade Deals with countries doing far worse....?

Trade deals only get signed when they are mutually beneficial.

So, if we get a good deal, it doesn't matter about nasty (worse) practices of the Chinese, Indians, US, Brazilians etc. ?
Double standards ????

[UndercoverElephant]

there will surely be a 3 month a50 extension

A bit presumptuous. Why do you think the other 27 would readily agree? What concessions would they require? how long would the negotiations take?

The 27 don't want a no deal brexit. I think they'd be happy to extend for 3 months if they thought it offered a chance of avoiding that outcome. No concessions.

[stumuz1]

I think they'd be happy to extend for 3 months if they thought it offered a chance of avoiding that outcome. No concessions.

But they would need a summit to agree that they agree on a 3 month extension.

No summits are scheduled.

Clock is ticking.

[UndercoverElephant]

Clock is ticking.

And the inexorable drift towards no deal continues.

[Little John]

And so here we have the final act of treachery. Remainers in parliament who have been screaming hysterically for 2 years about how the sky is going to fall in, how planes are going to be grounded and how medicines are going run out - these same Remainers, led by a group of including Labour’s Yvette Cooper and Hillary Benn, alongside Nick Boles and Nicky Morgan from the Tories have got their tabled amendment through on the back of a remain dominated parliament (but only just) to stop financial preparations for a No Deal Brexit despite the fact that the government are now investing billions in preparing the country for such an outcome.

A list of every single MP who voted for this needs to be published so every citizen know precisely who has deliberately attempted to betray their country. This can be said irrespective of whichever way one voted in the Referendum. These traitors are deliberately trying to F--k this country over if they can't get their own way.

[stumuz1]

Wouldn't worry too much about last nights theatre in parliament.

If, there is a no deal and the EU go on full punishment mode, then the government will just evoke the Emergency powers act:

If at any time it appears to His Majesty that any action has been taken or is immediately threatened by any persons or body of persons of such a nature and on so extensive a scale as to be calculated, by interfering with the supply and distribution of food, water, fuel, or light, or with the means of locomotion, to deprive the community, or any substantial portion of the community, of the essentials of life, His Majesty may, by proclamation (hereinafter referred to as a proclamation of emergency), declare that a state of emergency exists."

The PM can use these powers under the Royal prerogative and so can by pass parliament.

[PS_RalphW]

The latest yougov poll confirms what has been evident for some time, that public opinion is turning decisively against brexit in either of forms on offer, May's deal or no deal.

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/c ... Poll_w.pdf

This gives a remain majority at least twice as big as the leave majority in the referendum.

It is also clear that it is Labour voters who have changed their minds, because they now realise that Brexit will hurt them far more than the mostly wealthy Tory voters. Immigration will not fall significantly. Jobs will be lost in the remaining factories in the north. Inflation will be high, especially food.

To talk of a second referendum as being anti-democratic, or even the ravings a of fascists, are the futile ravings of angry old men who know they have lost the argument and are trying to intimidate or drown out the dueprocess of democracy.

[stumuz1]

The latest yougov poll confirms what has been evident for some time, that public opinion is turning decisively against brexit in either of forms on offer, May's deal or no deal.

I don't know what the result would be. Neither does anyone else for that matter. Andrew Mitchell was on the Radio this morning claiming Leave would win by a bigger majority.
But one thing is sure, the country is as split as it was in 2016 when the only way to decide was a referendum. It is clear a majority of people whom possessed agency and access to media did not like the result and sought to change it. They may be successful, who knows.

To talk of a second referendum as being anti-democratic, or even the ravings a of fascists, are the futile ravings of angry old men who know they have lost the argument and are trying to intimidate or drown out the dueprocess of democracy.

You don't see the contradictions in that statement, Ralph?

These angry old men have not lost the argument, they have lost the media game. It is axiomatic that a second referendum is undemocratic. David Cameron was quite clear " an in/out referendum and we will enact the result. Hmm.

But, if the referendum result is usurped, it will be a sad day for the country. I will always know that my winning vote was nugatory and I will be a supplicant to the unelected autocratic EU commision.

Maybe we should start a thread on the consequences of cancelling a democratic vote.

[UndercoverElephant]

Wouldn't worry too much about last nights theatre in parliament.

It is beyond theatre now. Serious constitutional crisis developing. Government vs Parliament, with the Speaker on Parliament's side.

[PS_RalphW]

It is axiomatic that a second referendum is undemocratic.

Why ? We had a referendum on the EU 40 years ago. We voted to stay in. 2 years is not as long as 40, but the world has moved on, and with the political process in deadlock why not ask the people again ? If the second result is leave, then that is decisive. The original majority was only 4% on a 70%(ish?) turnout. The first past the post system is a very unrepresentative measure of democracy anyway, without proportional representation parties like the Greens ans UKIP are effectively excluded.

Democracy in this country has always been tainted, and will continue to be so, as it is in all other countries.

[kenneal - lagger]

It is axiomatic that a second referendum is undemocratic.

Why ? We had a referendum on the EU 40 years ago. We voted to stay in. 2 years is not as long as 40, but the world has moved on, and with the political process in deadlock why not ask the people again ? If the second result is leave, then that is decisive. The original majority was only 4% on a 70%(ish?) turnout. The first past the post system is a very unrepresentative measure of democracy anyway, without proportional representation parties like the Greens ans UKIP are effectively excluded.

Democracy in this country has always been tainted, and will continue to be so, as it is in all other countries.

40 years go we voted to join the European Economic Community, a trading association. It has since morphed into a United States of Europe and as their mantra goes, Ever Closer Union. We didn't vote for a US of E 40 years ago and have never been given the chance to vote on it until two years go.

We voted 40 years ago and the vote was enacted. We voted two years ago and the vote has yet to be enacted but the losers are ccalling for another vote. After the vote has been enacted and we have had a trial period to see how things go by all means have another vote then but to vote again now is to disenfranchise the majority of people who chose to exercise their right to vote.

What difference would PR make on an "in or out" vote? You're grasping at straws here Ralph.

[Little John]

Wouldn't worry too much about last nights theatre in parliament.

It is beyond theatre now. Serious constitutional crisis developing. Government vs Parliament, with the Speaker on Parliament's side.

I have said this a million times. But, the ruling class are determined to have their way and the only way this is going to end is with civil unrest and bloodshed leading to Brexit happening or civil unrest and bloodshed and Brexit not happening. But, civil unrest and bloodshed is looking to be inevitable now either way. Our ruling class have now ensured that.