Brexit process

[Potemkin Villager]

And maybe you should get a life and take yourself a little less seriously.

[stumuz1]

such as the extra costs involve.

Sorry no, there will no extra costs for the taxpayer. Any extra costs are going to be paid by EU companies. When they re-register with UK HSE.
UK companies are grandfathered over.

The practical advice includes:
• Identifying chemicals affected by Brexit and companies’ roles in the supply chain
• If a substance is manufactured in the UK and EU by subsidiaries of the same company, the latter could act as the importer for the former. Doing so would mean that the EU firm’s registration dossier would need to be updated to accommodate the additional volume being placed on the market, which may cross a tonnage band and mean more testing requirements.
• To ease compliance, draw up a contract to appoint an only representative with a suspensive clause, to take effect when UK withdrawal is complete.

This advice is about two years old. All UK chemical companies will have started doing this within an hour of the referendum result.

Remember, CEFIC, CIA, ENDSREPORT.

All private companies selling compliance services.

[Mark]

Sorry no, there will no extra costs for the taxpayer.

Blimey, you're hard work.....

Setting up a UK equivalent to ECHA - Free ?
Setting up a UK equivalent to IUCLID - Free ?
All the extra people required at HSE/DEFRA to assess all the Registrations/Dossiers - Free ?
I could go on....

Then there's cost of Raw Material imports from the EU and elsewhere - all these registration costs will for sure be passed on to UK industry.....,
Costs up = Competitiveness down

[Mark]

This advice is about two years old. All UK chemical companies will have started doing this within an hour of the referendum result.

Really ?
The big ones with regulatory departments maybe, but certainly not SMEs....
My belief is that most are still watching/waiting, like other industry sectors....

[Potemkin Villager]

This seems pretty comprehensive as to exactly what no deal entails.

https://www.docdroid.net/m3YvOS5/brexit ... evised.pdf

"Let’s look more closely at no-deal. By default, we will automatically enter a no-deal situation on Brexit Day, unless we agree and ratify a Withdrawal Agreement. Parliament has a say on any Brexit deal, but it has no say on no-deal. That’s because no-deal isn’t a deal at all, but simply a shorthand way of describing the absence of any deal. The promise made to Parliament of a “meaningful vote� only allows for a vote on an actual deal. MPs can’t vote on nothing, which is what no-deal is.

No-deal has never been a real choice at all, regardless of Theresa May’s sloganeering. It’s where we end up when negotiations break down and we run out of alternatives. If you fall off a building, you grab at anything to break your fall. No-deal is the strawberry jam splat as you hit the ground. There is literally nothing worse."

[stumuz1]

Sorry no, there will no extra costs for the taxpayer.

Blimey, you're hard work.....

I thank you !!!

Setting up a UK equivalent to ECHA - Free ?
Setting up a UK equivalent to IUCLID - Free ?
All the extra people required at HSE/DEFRA to assess all the Registrations/Dossiers - Free ?
I could go on....

These will be paid for by the chemical companies, concomitant with the polluter pays principle.

The HSE is purely paid for by fees and fees for intervention. No tax payer money needed.

Then there's cost of Raw Material imports from the EU and elsewhere - all these registration costs will for sure be passed on to UK industry.....,
Costs up = Competitiveness down

Most chemical feed stocks or raw materials are sourced outside the EU (mostly China) so again nothing going to change.

As for competitive, I am currently dealing with the export to Asia of 23 litres of a complex chemical product,
The price £103000. Yes nearly 5K litre!

They would not be buying it if they could make it themselves, or find it cheaper.

[stumuz1]

This advice is about two years old. All UK chemical companies will have started doing this within an hour of the referendum result.

Really ?
The big ones with regulatory departments maybe, but certainly not SMEs....
My belief is that most are still watching/waiting, like other industry sectors....

And the best thing about SME's? Highly nimble. They'll be fine.

[Mark]

These will be paid for by the chemical companies, concomitant with the polluter pays principle.

The HSE is purely paid for by fees and fees for intervention. No tax payer money needed.

Exporting chemicals to the UK will classified as a polluting activity ?
I've not seen that stated anywhere...., have you got a reference ??

Fees For Intervention are currently only paid to the HSE if a company does something wrong.
I've not seen anything to say that FFI is changing either - reference ?

[Mark]

Most chemical feed stocks or raw materials are sourced outside the EU (mostly China) so again nothing going to change.

As for competitive, I am currently dealing with the export to Asia of 23 litres of a complex chemical product,
The price £103000. Yes nearly 5K litre!

They would not be buying it if they could make it themselves, or find it cheaper.

I don't know the exact EU/non-EU split, but a massive chunk currently comes from Germany/France/Spain/Holland..., especially at the commodity end where transport costs are key...
Granted, China & India are a growing presence from a low base but are certainly not the majority as you state...., reference ??

I'd venture that your £5K a litre example is a rare exception, rather than the rule.... the vast majority of UK chemical producers face stiff competition.....
A more common example/trend would be R&D in the UK with manufacturing under Licence in India/China (lower costs and safety/environmental protection).

[Mark]

This advice is about two years old. All UK chemical companies will have started doing this within an hour of the referendum result.

Really ?
The big ones with regulatory departments maybe, but certainly not SMEs....
My belief is that most are still watching/waiting, like other industry sectors....

And the best thing about SME's? Highly nimble. They'll be fine.

Either, all companies started preps 2 years ago and are ready and waiting....
Or, SMEs don't need detailed preps as they'll get by on the hoof.....
Make your mind up, you can't have it both ways.....

My vibe is that most UK companies are nervous and getting more so, regardless of the sector.
Very few have detailed plans in place, due to the ever moving political sands....

[stumuz1]

These will be paid for by the chemical companies, concomitant with the polluter pays principle.

The HSE is purely paid for by fees and fees for intervention. No tax payer money needed.

Exporting chemicals to the UK will classified as a polluting activity ?
I've not seen that stated anywhere...., have you got a reference ??

Fees For Intervention are currently only paid to the HSE if a company does something wrong.
I've not seen anything to say that FFI is changing either - reference ?

Doing a bit of legal reasoning there.

It goes like this, stay with me!

Lord young introduced fees for 'HSE services' at the beginning of the coalition govt'. His reasons was, why should taxpayers pay for the education of criminal H&S offences when the law abiding companies paid for the HSE through their taxes and did not commit the offences.

So Fees was introduced.

HSE have always been the competent authority for chemicals. Since the financial crash they are self funding.

Chemicals provide most of our pollution and ill health. Since the Rio earth summit the polluter pays principle has been adopted by countries to give the bill to the polluters.

So, if you want to put a novel chemical on the market. .. You pay.

[stumuz1]

Either, all companies started preps 2 years ago and are ready and waiting....
Or, SMEs don't need detailed preps as they'll get by on the hoof.....
Make your mind up, you can't have it both ways.....

If you carry on like this we are going to have to start betting

How many chemical companies move to the EU next year. I will bet not many.

My vibe is that most UK companies are nervous and getting more so, regardless of the sector.
Very few have detailed plans in place, due to the ever moving political sands....

I have a very different vibe!

[Mark]

Anyone who believe in nation statehood must be a blithering, jingoistic fool at best or a knuckle dragging moron at worst...right?

Wrong. The country was split approx. 50/50 and remains so. Both sides have perfectly valid arguments. Both sides need to respect the opposite point of view.

It's too early yet, but at some point we'll have to go through a 'healing' process, both within the UK and in the future UK/EU relationship....

[Mark]

If you carry on like this we are going to have to start betting

How many chemical companies move to the EU next year. I will bet not many.

As you know, it's not easy to move a chemical company....
My bet is that the short-term impact will be that UK manufacturers will find it more difficult to sell into the EU, leading to contraction and job losses.
In the medium term (5/10/15 years), there will be a gradual shift in investment away from the UK, some to the EU, some outside the EU....

[stumuz1]

My bet is that the short-term impact will be that UK manufacturers will find it more difficult to sell into the EU, leading to contraction and job losses.
In the medium term (5/10/15 years), there will be a gradual shift in investment away from the UK, some to the EU, some outside the EU....

I'll put you in the doomer camp