Brexit process

[vtsnowedin]

" Wants the UK to to stick to environmental and social rules even after Brexit

This would undermine the UK's ability to strike free trade deals around the world "

Really would it? The sheer quality of Mail hacks writing.

Could you give an example of a product that the UK would like to produce for domestic consumption or export that doesn't meet the current EU regulations?

[clv101]

" Wants the UK to to stick to environmental and social rules even after Brexit

This would undermine the UK's ability to strike free trade deals around the world "

Really would it? The sheer quality of Mail hacks writing.

Could you give an example of a product that the UK would like to produce for domestic consumption or export that doesn't meet the current EU regulations?

It's not so much a case of the UK wanting to produce a product that doesn't meet EU regs, but rather some people, some farmers for example may want to cut costs by lowering animal welfare standards below those allowed within the EU.

[UndercoverElephant]

" Wants the UK to to stick to environmental and social rules even after Brexit

This would undermine the UK's ability to strike free trade deals around the world "

Really would it? The sheer quality of Mail hacks writing.

Could you give an example of a product that the UK would like to produce for domestic consumption or export that doesn't meet the current EU regulations?

It's not so much a case of the UK wanting to produce a product that doesn't meet EU regs, but rather some people, some farmers for example may want to cut costs by lowering animal welfare standards below those allowed within the EU.

That would be a deeply unpopular policy in the UK.

[Potemkin Villager]

I wonder if it also means some people may want to cut costs by lowering employment costs below those allowed within the EU.

Now that would be unpopular.

[stumuz1]

It's a game-changing moment.

It certainly is.

As I write there is a large ship sailing to the UK from China, with inter alia, 150 tonnes of chemical for a UK customer. That customer usually gets monthly deliveries JIT from Germany by Road.

If this shipment goes to plan without hitches in quality, storage, process issues, then the business will change to a twice yearly deliveries from China.

Brexit is changing the game already. An EU business will probably lose a UK customer in perpetuity.

Whose fault is this? the UK's for voting Brexit? The EU's for being intransigent?

[UndercoverElephant]

OK, so here's a question about "products banned in the EU" and "lowered food standards. I came across this somewhat hysterical article in the Independent:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 75006.html

Among the meat products suggested for export to the UK are hormone-treated beef and “burnt goat heads�.

Hormone treated beef? I wouldn't want to eat it, personally. But provided it is labelled as such, I don't understand why there's a problem with giving other people the choice to eat it. I can't imagine it would be that much cheaper than non-hormone-treated beef that hasn't been shipped from the other side of the planet.

But it was the burnt goat heads that caught my eye. Clearly this is designed to provoke an irrational emotional reaction in people. But in this case, it doesn't even have to be labelled, since nobody is likely to mistake a goat head for anything else. But why burnt goat heads? Turns out this is one of those things that was traditionally eaten by peasants, but then became an exotic delicacy in many parts of the world. In fact, they are highly rated in non-EU Norway...although traditionally the Norwegians ate burnt sheep heads, and these are now deemed a scrapie risk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smalahove

Smalahove (also called smalehovud, sau(d)ehau(d) or skjelte) is a Western Norwegian traditional dish made from a sheep's head, originally eaten before Christmas.[1] The name of the dish comes from the combination of the Norwegian words hove and smale. Hove is a dialectal form of hovud, meaning head (cf. Hǫfuð), and smale is a word for sheep, so Smalahove literally means sheep head.[2][3] The skin and fleece of the head is torched, the brain removed, and the head is salted, sometimes smoked, and dried. The head is boiled or steamed for about three hours, and is served with mashed rutabaga and potatoes. It is also traditionally served with Akvavit.[4] In some preparations, the brain is cooked inside the skull and then eaten with a spoon or fried.[5] Originally, smalahove was typically eaten by the poor, but today it is considered a delicacy.

I am struggling to understand what the actual problem is. Burnt goats heads? Bring 'em on. Maybe I'm just more into exotic food that some people, but I think this is a fuss about nothing.

[woodburner]

The problem is the unscrupulous operaters in the food industry obtain products then put them on the market without telling people the facts. The fact they are interested in is the amount of profit.

[careful_eugene]

Hormone treated beef? I wouldn't want to eat it, personally. But provided it is labelled as such, I don't understand why there's a problem with giving other people the choice to eat it.

I think that's the issue, I believe that with any new trade deal with the US or anywhere else wanting to export food to us part of the agreement would be to get rid of the requirement for labels that meet current EU standards. For example if you look at a bar of Reese's chocolate, the label on the back with the ingredients will be stuck on for the EU market. It will list all ingredients and will show which ones are GM. If you peel the label off the list for US consumers is much shorter and simpler with no mention of GM. We know the US is keen to get rid of protected geographical indications, full disclosure labelling will be next on the list and will be described as de-regulation.

[cubes]

It's a game-changing moment.

It certainly is.

As I write there is a large ship sailing to the UK from China, with inter alia, 150 tonnes of chemical for a UK customer. That customer usually gets monthly deliveries JIT from Germany by Road.

If this shipment goes to plan without hitches in quality, storage, process issues, then the business will change to a twice yearly deliveries from China.

Until, once it's setup and running with little choice for the buyer they start putting their lower quality stuff in the ship instead. Like "quality" Chinese steel.

I agree with careful_eugene about labelling requirements, it's going to be one of the things the USA wants us to reduce regulation on. We're going to be to totally screwed over on this deal as we have no leaverage whatsoever and the USA has no allies at the end of the day, just countries it can use at the time.

[UndercoverElephant]

First net decrease in EU migration since 2004:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... k-13127071

More migrants from eight eastern European countries are now leaving the UK than arriving, official figures revealed today.

It's the first time there has been a net departure from the so-called EU8 states, including Poland and Czech Republic, since they joined the EU in 2004.

The stark fact - prompting warnings of a "Brexodus"- comes after 'net long-term migration' to Britain dropped sharply since the Brexit vote in 2016.

The measure records the difference between the number of people arriving and leaving the UK for at least 12 months.

Around 45,000 immigrants arrived from EU8 countries - Poland, Lithuania, Czech Republic, Hungary, Slovakia, Slovenia, Estonia and Latvia - in the year to the end of March.

At the same time, 47,000 departed - giving a net migration figure of minus 2,000.

Lots of people wailing of course, regardless of the fact it is driving rental prices down:

https://www.property118.com/eastern-eur ... eaving-uk/

And unemployment down:

https://www.scotsman.com/news/unemploym ... -1-4783623

As for me personally, this is all music to my ears. What a result, and even before brexit has happened. These people (from the EU8 eastern European and baltic states) have been stripping british woodlands of fungi. Every one of them that goes back home is a bonus. Bye bye.

[Little John]

I guess this means employers will have to improve pay and working conditions for indigenous British workers. Well boo hoo. Excuse me while I cry a f***ing river.

[kenneal - lagger]

....Lots of people wailing of course, regardless of the fact it is driving rental prices down:

You got that slightly wrong UE. Lots of people wailing of course, because it is driving rental prices down. "Tough" is all I can say.

[Little John]

....Lots of people wailing of course, regardless of the fact it is driving rental prices down:

You got that slightly wrong UE. Lots of people wailing of course, because it is driving rental prices down. "Tough" is all I can say.

Bang on the nail Ken.

Furthermore, we all know that improved pay and conditions for, say, farm workers will put up the price of food. And that is certainly going to be a short term problem, potentially.

However, the system will just have to readjust. In other words, there will be less money available to be swallowed up by other, less productive parts of the economy. House prices and rental income, for example.

And that is a GOOD thing.

[cubes]

I guess this means employers will have to improve pay and working conditions for indigenous British workers. Well boo hoo. Excuse me while I cry a f***ing river.

Isn't the problem not that they're not paid enough to do it, instead it's that they're too lazy to get off their fat arses and work for their money. You'd have to pay the available works £50k/yr to do some of farm jobs the eastern europeans do for min wage and even then half would quit.

[Little John]

I guess this means employers will have to improve pay and working conditions for indigenous British workers. Well boo hoo. Excuse me while I cry a f***ing river.

Isn't the problem not that they're not paid enough to do it, instead it's that they're too lazy to get off their fat arses and work for their money. You'd have to pay the available works £50k/yr to do some of farm jobs the eastern europeans do for min wage and even then half would quit.

Put bluntly, that is completely ignorant bollocks.

There is a reason that the kind of pay and conditions on offer for many agricultural workers makes sense for eastern European itinerant workers but does not make any sense for indigenous, settled ones.

Itinerant workers often live on site in multi bunk portacabins. Itinerant workers do not have all of the attendant living costs of rent, rates, water rates, school costs, bills and all of the other costs that come with living a settled existence as a fully functioning citizen.

Or are you suggesting that the poor should just "get off their fat arses" and accept the kind of insecure itinerant existence of the Eastern European workers? Where we, once again, have gangmasters on the end of streets and men get to find out that day if they get to feed their kids?