Update from the Archdruid Greer

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 08 Mar 2018, 00:24

Again I could not force myself to read past the halfway point. You might say I have a short attention span but I often read novels of five hundred pages in a day or two. I seems he actually has some valid points to make but if you can't wade through the style and excess verbiage how many readers actually get to his final point?

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 08 Mar 2018, 01:50

Those who are prepared to make the necessary effort?

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 08 Mar 2018, 07:12

vtsnowedin wrote:Again I could not force myself to read past the halfway point. You might say I have a short attention span but I often read novels of five hundred pages in a day or two. I seems he actually has some valid points to make but if you can't wade through the style and excess verbiage how many readers actually get to his final point?

More importantly if no-one can say what his point actually is then it raises the question as to whether or not there actually is a point or whether it is just general woffle and claptrap without saying anything of substance.

Potemkin Villager · Post by **Potemkin Villager** » 08 Mar 2018, 10:47

Lord Beria3 wrote:https://www.ecosophia.net/a-rhetorical-education/

Greer's latest.

As always SUPERB.

Yes but please share what exactly it is that is so superb for
those of us that just cannot see it. Or is he just indulging in Druidic
brainwashing?

https://sites.google.com/site/iscatusbe ... hael-greer

"John Michael Greer , the American archdruid, polymath and prophet of collapse, has a fascinating take on reality. He readily admits that he suffers from Aspergerâ€™s syndrome, which, along with a large ego and a high IQ, gives him an unshakeable faith in the general applicability of his personal experience.

As a youth, he tried to make a perpetual motion machine, but was disappointed to find that the second law of thermodynamics was hard to get around. He wasnâ€™t quite up to the task. His ego was badly hurt. From that day forth, there would be no free lunches for humanity. Still, he didnâ€™t give up. He went for the next best. As a young adult, he was just about to become a researcher into renewable energy when Ronald Reagan got into power, rapidly removed the solar panels from the White House and started to burn oil as though it were infinite. John found he couldnâ€™t get work in his chosen field. He felt unwanted and unloved. He became bitter. He was to be Humanityâ€™s saviour; and Humanity had turned itâ€™s back on him."

Lord Beria3 · Post by **Lord Beria3** » 09 Mar 2018, 21:46

You either get Greer or you don't.

I find his essays eloquent, thoughtful and makes powerful points which always make me think.

His style is different from what is popular these days, and are more in common with an old fashioned essay.

I enjoy his writings and think he has a good record of predicting the future using history as a guide.

He's not perfect but is one of the most original and interesting thinkers on the internet. One of the few people in public who successfully forecast the victory of Donald Trump in January 2016.

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 10 Mar 2018, 10:07

Can you, however, tell us more precisely about what clothes the emperor is wearing?

RevdTess · Post by **RevdTess** » 10 Mar 2018, 12:04

Back in the 2000s I remember reading Greer with a sense of awe. He spoke with vast knowledge and authority on subjects I'd only just started to consider. Having just spent a few hours catching up on a half dozen or more of his posts over the last year, including all the ones referred to as 'superb' or 'genius' in this thread, I'm a bit underwhelmed.

The post I probably enjoyed most was the one in which he discusses all the reasons why everyone is ignoring climate science and just going on living as we've always done (including the climate scientists). I enjoyed this one because as a trainee vicar I'm currently studying a module on 'eco-theology' which is basically a discussion of how necessary it is to change our cultural understanding of the relationship between humanity and the natural world (of which we are part), and how the theology of the bible might be deployed to help us do that (at least among those who still care about what the bible might say on anything at all). I found myself inwardly (and sometimes outworldly) as frustrated as ever at those in my class who insist that baby steps are worthwhile, that small improvements in energy efficiency and new renewable technologies and personal asceticism leave them feeling entirely optimistic about the future, despite everything being in a far worse state than 15 years ago when people first started saying this. And I assume we will keep saying it until our graves.

Unfortunately, like the rest of us, Greer doesn't seem to have any answers. I don't begrudge him that, but it's a long read to find yourself still in the same old chains. His post on ethics, while impressive to those who know little about ethics, is really a very long-winded ethics 101 in which he takes three or four loooong paragraphs to explain concepts that have concise single-sentence definitions in all the ethics books I had to study for my theology.

His work is undoubtedly helpful to many, but perhaps most impressive in its scope rather than its clarity or depth. If you know any of his subject-matter at an academic level he starts to read like a first year degree student who imagines they are the first to come up with this stuff and need to show their amazing working to an astonished and grateful world - a bit like me when aged 18 I 'invented' trickle-down economics by describing to a socialist friend at length how lifting an iron chain from the ground eventually lifts every link. "This is called trickle-down economics," my friend replied, "and it's crap".

Ironically, Greer makes me feel better about all the turgid theology I've been reading (and spouting) over the past four years. I've often described reading former Archbishop Rowan Williams' writing as like wading through mud up to the chest, where to get anything out of it you have to read every sentence four or five times. But the payoff is world class and there is not one unnecessary word on the page. Greer on the other hand is more 'well-read bloke down the allotment'. I quite like him, and agree with 95% of his analysis, but it's not hugely sophisticated, and he does ramble on.

But now I'm also rambling. I should be writing a book-review essay on the subject of the church's pastoral care in the parish when so many reject God because of all the evil in the world (among all the other reasons)...

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 10 Mar 2018, 13:11

Hi! Tess. Great to have you back if it might be only briefly given your current work load! Keep it up. There are plenty of parishes in the country which could do with your expertise on environmental matter as well as your religious input.

I have listened to Rowan Williams recently at a couple of meetings of CUSP, the Centre for Understanding the Sustainable Economy, and his talks would seem to be similar to your estimation of his writing. He sounds very eloquent but it is not easy to grasp quickly what he is saying. His prose is beautifully philosophical and flowery with many long words, almost poetry, but he takes a long time to say something and leaves me anyway wondering what he actually is saying.

fuzzy · Post by **fuzzy** » 10 Mar 2018, 14:47

Like a spiritual Neil Kinnock?

RevdTess · Post by **RevdTess** » 10 Mar 2018, 14:48

kenneal - lagger wrote:Hi! Tess. Great to have you back if it might be only briefly given your current work load! Keep it up. There are plenty of parishes in the country which could do with your expertise on environmental matter as well as your religious input.

Heh, I don't have much if any environmental expertise, except that I know minor tweaks to BAU aren't going to make any difference since the more efficient or 'clean' our use of energy, the more we end up using globally, and the more we shift pollution to somewhere else in the supply chain.

Still, we give it the old school try! It's an opportunity for coming together as a community and a motivation to think about the impact of our consumption, and perhaps to think a little more about others' needs and less about what we can get for ourselves. But the theologians agree with the ArchDruid: if you want to fix the pollution/energy/climate/extinction crisis, our whole global culture needs to change direction.

For those interested, I become Reverend Tess on 29th June 2018, assuming I finish all these essays and don't upset the bishop.

stumuz1 · Post by **stumuz1** » 11 Mar 2018, 10:05

Well done Tess!

Always enjoyed yours posts. Best of luck for the future.

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 11 Mar 2018, 10:33

<Snip> If you want to fix the pollution/energy/climate/extinction crisis, our whole global culture needs to change direction.

I think this sentence stands on its own, and it is not out of context to separate it. Some may think otherwise.

I think it is profound and will never be acted on, as the global culture is for continual growth of all sorts, including population. Under the mantra (or similar) of â€œevery life is sacred and they must all be â€œsavedâ€�â€� we have the recipe for catastrophic failure.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 11 Mar 2018, 11:35

You might not have much "expert" knowledge on Climate Change, Tess, but you do have a knowledge and awareness of the greatness of the problems involved so you are in a better position than most people.

I do hope that you have a joyous day on the 29th and are given a friendly parish after. Which diocese are you in?

Potemkin Villager · Post by **Potemkin Villager** » 11 Mar 2018, 12:35

Tess wrote:
Greer on the other hand is more 'well-read bloke down the allotment'. I quite like him, and agree with 95% of his analysis, but it's not hugely sophisticated, and he does ramble on.

Welcome back Tess and good luck with your chosen path in life from
a well-read bloke down the allotment.

Lord Beria3 · Post by **Lord Beria3** » 11 Mar 2018, 16:39

Welcome back Tess.

Not sure you have read Greer correctly.

Having read most of his books and his blog posts, including his comments below the main article, I can assure you that Greer thinks that change must come from the individual first.

He is the complete opposite to those who think and argue that you must wait for the global culture to change! Greer acts as he speaks, he doesn't travel by plane, lives a low-carbon lifestyle and buys local and healthy food, among other things.

It is true that Greer is a well read "generalist" and not a expert, as such, on any specific issue but that is what makes him such an interesting reading. He reads across the board and connects the dots in a way nobody else does.

At the end of the day, I maintain and update this thread for those, including little john (and lurkers) who value Greer and his writings.

If you don't enjoy his writing you don't need to involve yourself on this thread.