Gas alert as demand and prices rise

BritDownUnder · Post by **BritDownUnder** » 01 Mar 2018, 10:37

Luckily wind has held at 10GW for nearly a day now. Serious thought now needs to be given to alternatives to gas in the UK. I think a moratorium on closures of coal and nuclear plants (other than for safety reasons) needs to be put in place.

Maybe even tidal and offshore wind and storage needs to be looked at. The problem is the government may be distracted by Brexit.

Post by **adam2** » 01 Mar 2018, 11:27

Now reported on MSM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43229297

The gas panic is now official !

Post by **clv101** » 01 Mar 2018, 11:34

Media reports are a bit irresponsible I think. Lot of people worried by headlines yet the chance of domestic interruption is essentially zero.

fuzzy · Post by **fuzzy** » 01 Mar 2018, 12:07

Don't you think a scare which focuses our options is a good thing? If we dodge a bullet this year, then next?

Post by **adam2** » 01 Mar 2018, 12:54

The gas price has again increased very substantially, to about 50% higher than yesterday, which was itself a new all time record.
About 6 pence a KWH.

Wholesale market prices are now higher than retail prices.

Panic now official.

Post by **adam2** » 01 Mar 2018, 13:03

I wonder if the present high prices will lead to any energy companies going bust ?
What about retailers of gas who are now selling gas retail for a lower price than they are buying it at, and in some cases have retail customers on prices fixed for some time.

What about operators of gas burning power stations ? The cost of the gas is now well in excess of the normal value of the electricity produced.
If the owner of the gas power station can NOT pass on this increase, they might bust.
If they CAN pass on the increase by doubling the wholesale price of electricity, then electricity retailers will be paying more wholesale than they can sell it for retail.

Post by **adam2** » 01 Mar 2018, 13:09

clv101 wrote:Media reports are a bit irresponsible I think. Lot of people worried by headlines yet the chance of domestic interruption is essentially zero.

Agree, any interruption to domestic gas suppliers is most unlikely.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43229297

Here is a slightly later news report that is IMO more accurate. It does however note that "gas burning power stations may be asked to reduce consumption" Not certain how that is to be achieved without power cuts.

fuzzy · Post by **fuzzy** » 01 Mar 2018, 13:21

I have no faith that the rota disconnect system can be implemented by our weak incompetent corrupt leaders. Who remembers the hospital a few years ago who had signed a cheap interuptible tarriff, only to claim a mistake when the time arrived - so no stoppage because it was bad publicity.

Post by **adam2** » 01 Mar 2018, 15:22

fuzzy wrote:I have no faith that the rota disconnect system can be implemented by our weak incompetent corrupt leaders. Who remembers the hospital a few years ago who had signed a cheap interuptible tarriff, only to claim a mistake when the time arrived - so no stoppage because it was bad publicity.

I also have little faith in our leaders.
However rota power cuts do not need "implementing by our leaders" If there is insufficient electricity (due to want of gas input to power stations or any other cause) then some consumers will have to be cut off. The rota is pre planned and can be put into operation whenever needed.

Note that I refer here to ELECTRICITY cuts, there is no such thing as rota GAS cuts.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 01 Mar 2018, 15:29

Do the low temperatures we are now experiencing have a significant effect on the rate at which we can regasify LNG? I was thinking that the LNG is gasified using the ambient temperature of the air around the tanks.

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 01 Mar 2018, 15:36

Presumably you could divert some of the gas to burn it to generate heat to help speed the regasification. Assuming the system was designed that way.

Potemkin Villager · Post by **Potemkin Villager** » 01 Mar 2018, 15:41

PS_RalphW wrote:Presumably you could divert some of the gas to burn it to generate heat to help speed the regasification. Assuming the system was designed that way.

Is that what is called a Kelvinator rather than a refrigerator?

Post by **adam2** » 01 Mar 2018, 15:54

PS_RalphW wrote:Presumably you could divert some of the gas to burn it to generate heat to help speed the regasification. Assuming the system was designed that way.

AFAIK, the system is not designed to work like that.
Although heat is required to turn LNG back into gas, "heat" in this context is a relative term and temperatures well below freezing point would still "heat" the LNG.
I would not care to have a gas flame near a large LNG tank.

Potemkin Villager · Post by **Potemkin Villager** » 01 Mar 2018, 15:57

According to the Torygraph:-

"For the first time in almost a decade National Grid said gas supplies will not be enough to meet demand, unless energy-intensive industries agree to use less gas in return for hefty compensation payments levied on to consumer bills."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... -forecast/

Now that would really play badly politically.

Post by **adam2** » 01 Mar 2018, 16:14

Gas stocks now 10,800GWH, yesterday the figure was 12,700.
So in 24 hours we have used 1,900GWH.
We have enough left for 5 days and a few hours.