Brexit process

[PS_RalphW]

Annoyingly, BMW make the most practical hybrid electric car on the market, if you don't want to risk getting stranded by the parlous state of the electric charging network. Still a bit too pricey for me to buy even second hand, and will soon be obsoleted by longer range pure electrics, but it would fit my current driving requirements as well as any, cutting my transport fossil fuel requirement by 90%.

The only downside is I would be terminally embarrassed to be seen driving it.

[cubes]

I don't think that we have to convince all 27 countries, just the few who will have to pick up the tab when we leave and the few who have large exports to the UK, like Germany with its 25% of their cars coming here. They will put some reality into the negotiations when the chips are really down.

I think you'll find the EU is a bit more together than we would like to think and suckers here will continue to buy overpriced crappy (relative to what they used to be) german cars by the bucketload even with heavy import duties.

[UndercoverElephant]

What the EU wants on fisheries?

Did somebody say they hold all the cards? They don't.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42922796

"To help the two sides manage an industry that catches 100 different types of fish worth £625m a year, the EU is mulling over a bespoke fisheries partnership with the UK.

It would be based on current and existing fishing patterns. In other words, it might look very similar to the Common Fisheries Policy.

The European Commission helpfully pointed out that the EU catches a lot of fish off the British coast and the UK sells a lot of fish to EU consumers, suggesting a link between access to each other's waters and each other's markets. "

So let's see. We have a massive fishery in our territorial waters. Far bigger than any country remaining in the EU. And the EU is mulling over a deal whereby they agree to continue buying fish from us, provided we allow them to take as many of our fish as they like, without paying for them! And this isn't in return for some other deal, like the EU agreeing to allow the UK to continue offering financial services. Oh no. This, they think, is a fair deal, all on its own.

Hmmm. How about, instead, the EU goes and slings its hooks (and nets), and we keep all of our own fish stocks, and sell them to whoever the f*** we like?

At the very least, if the EU wants access to UK fisheries after Brexit, it has to offer us something else major in return, not just tariff-free access to the EU market in a "special deal" for fisheries where the EU gets exactly what it wants for nothing.

[kenneal - lagger]

That sounds like we are going to sell out our fishermen again, UE. They deserve a better deal than that.

[UndercoverElephant]

That sounds like we are going to sell out our fishermen again, UE. They deserve a better deal than that.

It sounds like the EU thinks it can bully the UK into agreeing to sell out our fishermen and getting nothing in return. Who knows what is actually going to come out the end of these negotiations. Maybe the tories will surprise us and actually manage to negotiate a decent deal, which could involve getting a major concession in return for the right to fish in our waters. The fishermen would feel sold out on, but at least the country would be getting something back in return.

[kenneal - lagger]

An awful lot of fishermen voted to leave the EU. It would be a shame to screw them again.

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"an awful lot" being about 12,000 now? (according to https://www.gov.uk/government/news/fish ... -published )

I'd personally say it's a vocal very small minority.

[johnhemming2]

An awful lot of fishermen voted to leave the EU. It would be a shame to screw them again.

Noting your signature do you think the UK fishermen should be allowed to fish unlimited quantities of fish from UK waters?

[adam2]

An awful lot of fishermen voted to leave the EU. It would be a shame to screw them again.

Noting your signature do you think the UK fishermen should be allowed to fish unlimited quantities of fish from UK waters?

I appreciate that the question was not directed at me, but I believe that UK waters should only be fished by UK fishermen. There should be limits on the amount caught in order to preserve stocks.
Limits can be on a tonnage basis, or by limiting the number of days a year that any ship can spend fishing, and also by restricting the size and number of fishing vessels.
A lot of cynics consider that one of the reasons that the UK was admitted into the then common market, was to grab UK fishing grounds for the Spanish.
I certainly know of a number people who voted for Brexit in order to regain control of UK fishing grounds. Leaving the EU and NOT regaining our fishing grounds would be regarded by many as a betrayal.

[kenneal - lagger]

An awful lot of fishermen voted to leave the EU. It would be a shame to screw them again.

Noting your signature do you think the UK fishermen should be allowed to fish unlimited quantities of fish from UK waters?

Certainly not. I believe in moderation in all things from fishing to immigration and from meat eating to travel. We have overfished our waters and we need to establish even more marine protection zones and we need to reduce drastically the amount of trawling which is carried out as this has sterilized large areas of the sea floor. This would be much easier with less pressure from the number of fishermen.

A few more windfarms would do our fisheries a lot of good as they establish a de facto marine reserve in which fishing, except line fishing, is all but impossible allowing the sea bed to recover. The rock armouring of the pylon bases forms nurseries for young fish as well. The fact that these wind farms are usually in shallow areas is also good as these are areas where light levels are good and which would formerly have had good vegetative growth before trawling.

We only have 12,000 fishermen now because tens of thousands of them have been forced from the industry in this country to allow EU fishermen in. That was the betrayal of our fishermen that causes them to reject the EU so vehemently.they so

Some might think that I believe in an excess of insulation but the level of insulation that I espouse is the level at which going over would become an excessive use of insulation.

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Fishing will never be big enough economically to really matter, so why are we making so much fuss? Even if we stop anyone else fishing there still wouldn't be that many jobs created.

Perhaps fishing in uk waters should be completely prohibited for 10 years (or more) to help fish stock/ecology? Few people's livelihoods would be effected compared to many of the other decisions available from brexit.

This is just one of those subjects that's dragged up as "look, the EU is bad because" yet it hardly effects anyone in the UK.

[vtsnowedin]

Fishing will never be big enough economically to really matter, so why are we making so much fuss? Even if we stop anyone else fishing there still wouldn't be that many jobs created.

Perhaps fishing in uk waters should be completely prohibited for 10 years (or more) to help fish stock/ecology? Few people's livelihoods would be effected compared to many of the other decisions available from brexit.

This is just one of those subjects that's dragged up as "look, the EU is bad because" yet it hardly effects anyone in the UK.

OK so the people at the market don't care if there is any fish for sale and Joe cod fisher can get along for ten years with no work to do? I think not.
Ban the mega trawlers from what ever country, and stop wasting "by catch" and let your own fishermen put a net in the water a few good days per year not determined by a non fishing bureaucrat and have them market every fish that comes up in the net.

[woodburner]

To allow recovery, it should be a limited quanty of smaller fish that are caught, NOT the large fish. The large ones are the breeding stock. If these are landed, and the smaller ones are thrown back, (usually dead anyway), there’s no realistic way for the fish to recover. Larger “no-fish zones� might help.

[kenneal - lagger]

I don't think it is necessary to completely ban fishing over the whole UK sea area. Strategically located Marine Protected Areas (MPAs)can massively increase the fish available by protecting spawning and nursery areas for young fish to grow in before they migrate out into the fishing waters. This is a proven strategy and can be expanded along with off shore wind farms.

[kenneal - lagger]

I thought that the throwing back of by catch had been banned in the EU, This reference says all discards will be banned in the EU by 2019 with some exceptions.

An EU ban adopted by the EU Fisheries Ministers in February 2013 will be phased in gradually, beginning with the North Sea in 2014. By 2019 it will cover all the EU’s fisheries, with some exceptions.

This government website notes discard bans in particular fishing areas on January 1st 2015 and 2016.