Brexit process

[UndercoverElephant]

When it comes to trade rules they will be defined by the EU.

Erm, nope, they will be subject to negotiation between the EU and the UK.

[johnhemming2]

The UK has already accepted in the negotiations that it will have to follow EU rules to trade with the EU.

[Little John]

So, does every country in the world who trades with the EU have to follow EU rules?

[johnhemming2]

That's what trade agreements are.

[Little John]

That's what trade agreements are.

But you just posted:

When it comes to trade rules they will be defined by the EU.

So, which is it: diktat or agreement? Make your mind up.

[emordnilap]

So, does every country in the world who trades with the EU have to follow EU rules?

Or, are goods which are below EU standards allowed legally into the EU?

Not that it matters in the end; CETA (and TISA) will open the door for a new TTIP. The overclass won't give up till these 'agreements' are in place.

[johnhemming2]

a new TTIP.

The CJEU which the government call the ECJ is much better than ISDS.

[vtsnowedin]

Any producer of a product has to make it to the customers requirements to make a sale. If the EU wont buy your products you can consume them in the UK or sell them elsewhere where they are less fussy. You can bet that the EU will not be so high and mighty that they refuse to sell you their products made to their "high standards".
Would not the UK-Canada-USA trading triangle by able to absorb all of the UK exports refused by the EU?

[johnhemming2]

Exactly buying is not likely to be a problem. It is selling that is a problem.

The idea that the rules in terms of product standards for selling to the EU will be in any way materially different to the EU's rules is a nonsense.

[UndercoverElephant]

Any producer of a product has to make it to the customers requirements to make a sale. If the EU wont buy your products you can consume them in the UK or sell them elsewhere where they are less fussy. You can bet that the EU will not be so high and mighty that they refuse to sell you their products made to their "high standards".
Would not the UK-Canada-USA trading triangle by able to absorb all of the UK exports refused by the EU?

Not necessarily. For example, the US (and presumably Canada) has significantly lower standards for meat and agricultural produce (eg it allows chlorine-washed chicken and hormone-injected beef). As a result, the UK can't effectively compete on price for these products with home-produced but lower quality US stuff.

[Little John]

So, how does the EU currently manage to compete with the likes of America and how does America currently manage to export to the EU?

The figures I have got hold of for the US are:

Goods exported to the EU totalled $273 billion; Goods imported from the EU totalled $426 billion. The U.S. goods trade deficit with the EU was $153 billion in 2015. Trade in services with the EU (exports and imports) totalled an estimated $388 billion in 2014 (latest data available).

So, it seems the US has little problem exporting to the EU and the EU has even less of a problem exporting to the US.

So, if the EU can manage to export more to the US than they import, despite having higher standards, why is the UK going to be unable to do so?

[UndercoverElephant]

So, how does the EU currently manage to compete with the likes of America and how does America currently manage to export to the EU?

The figures I have got hold of for the US are:

Goods exported to the EU totalled $273 billion; Goods imported from the EU totalled $426 billion. The U.S. goods trade deficit with the EU was $153 billion in 2015. Trade in services with the EU (exports and imports) totalled an estimated $388 billion in 2014 (latest data available).

So, it seems the US has little problem exporting to the EU and the EU has even less of a problem exporting to the US.

So, if the EU can manage to export more to the US than they import, despite having higher standards, why is the UK going to be unable to do so?

Total figures are a bit useless in this discussion. It all depends on exactly what you are trying to export to where.

Not that I am any sort of expert on this! I cannot say I am informed enough to have a worthwhile opinion on our ability to export stuff post-hard-brexit compared to now.

[Little John]

Agriculture, which is the sector you raised specific concern over with regards to the UK having to trade with the US (though, I still fail to see how this would be any greater handicap than a UK inside the EU would be) accounts for a tiny proportion of our economy and so, presumably, a tiny proportion of our exports.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/ec ... now-ons-g7

....In 1948, British industry (including manufacturing, oil and gas extraction, and utilities) accounted for 41% of the British economy. By 2013, it was just 14%.

At the same time the services sector's share of the economy has risen from 46% to 79%. Construction, meanwhile, has remained stable at about 6% of GDP, and the role of agriculture has dwindled from 6% to 1% over the postwar years....

[Mark]

EU and Japan reach free trade deal:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40520218

The European Union and Japan have formally agreed an outline free-trade deal. The agreement paves the way for trading in goods without tariff barriers between two of the world's biggest economic areas. However, few specific details are known and a full, workable agreement may take some time. Two of the most important sectors are Japanese cars and, for Europe, EU farming goods into Japan. The outline plan was signed in Brussels after a meeting between the Japanese Prime Minister, Shinzo Abe, and the European Commission president, Jean-Claude Juncker, on the eve of a meeting of the G20 group of leading economies in Hamburg. It comes hard on the heels of the collapse of a long-awaited trade agreement between Japan, the US and other Pacific ring countries, the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), which was scrapped in January by US President Donald Trump.

'Countering' Brexit
The president of the European Council, Donald Tusk, said the agreement showed the EU's commitment to world trade: "We did it. We concluded EU-Japan political and trade talks. EU is more and more engaged globally." Mr Tusk also said the deal countered the argument put forward by some of those in favour of Brexit that the EU was unable to promote free trade: "Although some are saying that the time of isolationism and disintegration is coming again, we are demonstrating that this is not the case." He added that the deal was not just about common trade interests, but reflected "the shared values that underpin our societies, by which I mean liberal democracy, human rights and the rule of law". Japan is the world's third-largest economy, with a population of about 127 million. As it stands, the country is Europe's seventh biggest export market. One of the most important trade categories for the EU is dairy goods. Japan's appetite for milk and milk-based products has been growing steadily in recent years. The EU's dairy farmers are struggling with falling demand in its home nations and an ultra-competitive buying climate, which farmers say means they are paid less than the cost of production. Even once the agreement is fully signed, the deal is likely to have in place long transition clauses of up to 15 years to allow sectors in both countries time to adjust to the new outside competition.

[Little John]

So, will Japan be required to accept free movement of people from the EU then?