Started preparations on a limited budget

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 20 Jan 2007, 20:51

not sure how long maybe they would know at

http://peakoilmedicine.wordyblog.com/

I think you should put by things to do with preserving food kilner jars sugar again like salt is cheap now and if stored in the right way can last a long time .

things like rice or anything that stores and we cant grow that well in the uk , maybe chocolate .

MacG · Post by **MacG** » 20 Jan 2007, 20:55

Mean Mr Mustard wrote:I'm Type 1 too. Insulin keeps outside the fridge (ie installed in the pen and carried around) for 28 days. It doesn't like extremes of temperature though.

I wonder if a small PV fridge might be worth having later on to ensure the insulin keeps through any extended outage. I worry a little more about the fragility of the insulin supply chain, to be honest, I don't know what it takes to manufacture the stuff - I think it's made in Denmark. Maybe this would be an interesting general article for Balance, the Diabetes UK house journal.

Sally - there's one thing I must absolutely recommend for any Type 1 diabetic - get signed up for a DAFNE course. (Dose adjustment for normal eating) It's a real life changer, frees you from all sorts of problems. I'll look up the url and get back.

The insulin of today is made by genetically modified yeast in fermentation tanks, and then purified trough a pretty high-tech process using pretty high-tech stuff sourced globally. Old-time insulin was purified from pig pancreas. A PhD pharmacist friend of mine with Type-1 have put a description of the pig pancreas process in his bank deposit box.

Keela · Post by **Keela** » 20 Jan 2007, 20:57

I know my nephew has changed his regime recently, it seems meal times are MUCH more flexible now.

However it also means he needs a lunchtime dose... meaning a parental visit to the school. For although he can inject himself the teachers need a family member to be there & take responsibility!

Perhaps this new stuff is the scheme you are talking about. He's been diabetic since he was 2 & a half. Now nine or so I think.

I think most insulin is now produced by culturing genetically modified strains of bacteria. (I teach Biology & this is what we teach!) Wonder is it/can it be done locally?

28 days... The pen stuff keeps longer than I thought then.

Thanks for any info. (& sorry for taking the thread off topic!)

Sal

Keela · Post by **Keela** » 20 Jan 2007, 21:01

MacG.. Do you think the pig pancreas stuff is less technical to produce?

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 20 Jan 2007, 21:04

Some random insulin info:

Insulin & disasters : http://www.fda.gov/cder/emergency/insulin.htm

Uncooled insulin (PDF) : http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/pd ... ookieSet=1

More lifetimes: http://www.ufdiabetes.org/managing_insulin.asp

Yet more: http://www.essentialdrugs.org/edrug/arc ... g00067.php

Essentially you seem to have a few weeks storage time at room temp, and many months if refrigerated.

MacG · Post by **MacG** » 20 Jan 2007, 21:09

Sally wrote:MacG.. Do you think the pig pancreas stuff is less technical to produce?

Yes. Much less. It was done in the 1930's and MUST have been more low-tech than the biotech stuff which arrived in the 1980's. Think they got a Nobel Prize in 1923 for the discovery. The pig insulin dont have exactly the same amino acid sequence as the human, and most diabetics died in their 50's under the old regime. Eyes, kidneys and peripheral circulation issues. Much better than no insulin at all though.

Keela · Post by **Keela** » 20 Jan 2007, 21:09

Good links Vortex thanks.

Keela · Post by **Keela** » 20 Jan 2007, 21:13

MacG wrote:
Sally wrote:MacG.. Do you think the pig pancreas stuff is less technical to produce?
Yes. Much less. It was done in the 1930's and MUST have been more low-tech than the biotech stuff which arrived in the 1980's. Think they got a Nobel Prize in 1923 for the discovery. The pig insulin dont have exactly the same amino acid sequence as the human, and most diabetics died in their 50's under the old regime. Eyes, kidneys and peripheral circulation issues. Much better than no insulin at all though.

I wonder though - is the most technical bit of the fermentation method not already achieved... ie the strain has been produced and provided a culture is maintained the genetic modification bit doesn't need to be repeated.

So is there a difference in how the purification processes are achieved between harvesting from pigs or a culture? This I know nothing about.

Ho - hum my brain is turning to spagetti

MacG · Post by **MacG** » 20 Jan 2007, 21:36

Sally wrote:
MacG wrote:
Sally wrote:MacG.. Do you think the pig pancreas stuff is less technical to produce?
Yes. Much less. It was done in the 1930's and MUST have been more low-tech than the biotech stuff which arrived in the 1980's. Think they got a Nobel Prize in 1923 for the discovery. The pig insulin dont have exactly the same amino acid sequence as the human, and most diabetics died in their 50's under the old regime. Eyes, kidneys and peripheral circulation issues. Much better than no insulin at all though.
I wonder though - is the most technical bit of the fermentation method not already achieved... ie the strain has been produced and provided a culture is maintained the genetic modification bit doesn't need to be repeated.

So is there a difference in how the purification processes are achieved between harvesting from pigs or a culture? This I know nothing about.

Ho - hum my brain is turning to spagetti

Dont know. Will have to spend serious time in the library to answer.

XENG · Post by **XENG** » 20 Jan 2007, 23:12

It would seem that insulin production is rather high-tech and probably quite energy intensive according to this (scroll down to "proccess and production"), however maybe theres hope if that doesnt require a similar purification process.

Mean Mr Mustard · Post by **Mean Mr Mustard** » 21 Jan 2007, 00:36

For Sally and others interested in the diabetic issues - http://www.dafne.uk.com/ will be of interest to type 1s, the equivalent patient self-management regime for type 2s is DESMOND, try googling it.

Maybe the moderator could post these into a new Diabetics and PO thread?

For me, just one of many issues to work out in the right order as things unravel, DOOMED as we all are.

grinu · Post by **grinu** » 22 Jan 2007, 09:07

Not sure why you don't need to store water, because evryone will be dead through lack of it after a few days and then there will be plenty. Would that not include you if you didn't store any????!? Or am I missing something?

If you buy a really good water filter with a spare cartridge, then you don't need to store any water - maybe get a water butt and you'll have loads. A problem with plastic bottles is that they allow a degree of exchange to take place between the contents of the bottle and what is outside - if you store them next to, e.g. turpentine, then the water may be contaminated. Water can also 'go off', in that bacteria can multiply etc. and cause it to make you unwell. Beer used to be drunk instead of water in older times because it was safer.

How long do vitamin pills keep for? I thought they had a fairly short useful shelf-life? A good preparation in short-term could be to make sure that you have access to a bit of roughage all year round, whether in window boxes, garden etc. Many many things are edible and people don't realise it. Probably better off getting minerals & vitamins from things like nettles, which are everywhere, available all year round, and which are a more natural source of minerals and vitamins. Lots of foods that were staples in the past are not not even considered to be food these days, and some are very plentiful at certain times of the yr - for example lime leaves.

Another important thing is to have a stash of cash - if there's a major power cut then cash machines won't work and shops may not be able to take cards.

Keela · Post by **Keela** » 22 Jan 2007, 11:28

grinu wrote: Another important thing is to have a stash of cash - if there's a major power cut then cash machines won't work and shops may not be able to take cards.

That's one I hadn't thought of! Good point.

MacG Don't spend too long searching.... as Vortex points out in another thread I really should do it myself!

Mean Mr Mustard · Post by **Mean Mr Mustard** » 22 Jan 2007, 18:41

Yeh - should have remembered to list the cash one because the ATMs ran out in the Sept 2000 fun and games.

"Beer used to be drunk instead of water in older times because it was safer".

A huge beer stash (and cash reserve) as a necessary preparation for PO?

Now you're talking - who said it was all bad news!

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 22 Jan 2007, 19:08

A huge beer stash

Beer used instead of possibly dirty water was very weak ... people could drink 5-10 pints a day of the stuff!

You will need a VERY big stash!