I've started in a modest way on my preparations.
Over and above all, mortgage / debt elimination, which will take me some 18 months to achieve.
During this period, I've decided to spend ?50 a month on PO preparations. I think I need to be concentrating first on resilience against immediate energy supply disruptions, later on long term beneficial stuff.
Already moved to laptop instead of desktop.
Sacks of dog food, potatoes, tinned food to last a couple of months.
Jerrycan for shed and fuel canister in car to enable essential car journeys despite long fuel crisis. I'll put the diesel in them next month, cos that's nearly a month's budget on one hit!
Later on...
Storing water, using plastic bottles otherwise thrown in the recycling bin might be a good idea, but somehow seems a little extreme. Maybe just stashing the clean empty bottles in a bin bag will do for now. If we lose water it'll be no-notice.
Buying useful stuff while it's cheap - eg three or four pairs of stout walking boots should last a lifetime.
Getting into veggie gardening, encouraging Mrs Mustard to put her knowledge to good use. We have a small plot, a potting shed, small greenhouse, but oh so many plastic tubs.
Overhaul Mrs Mustard's bike. Dust mine off. Stock up on bike consumables.
Solar powered stuff, radio, recharger, hmm, sounds good.
I'm just a beginner in all this, so perhaps someone can advise on getting my priorities in order. And any bigger budget stuff to consider in 18 months time.
Cheers
Mustard
Started preparations on a limited budget
Moderator: Peak Moderation
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Mean Mr Mustard
- Posts: 1555
- Joined: 31 Dec 2006, 12:14
- Location: Cambridgeshire
Sounds good.
We've installed some rain water butts at each down pipe. Just blue plastic barrels with an overflow - it's not just for drinking that you need water.
I've been saving some glass srewtop bottles and jars. I think plastic have a limited life span as they become brittle.
I started a thread earlier about a store we created in the autumn. We bought large sacks/bags of stuff like porridge, pasta, dried peas, lentils, barley, sugar, salt, flour, dried milk, baking soda etc. Also some tins of stuff like baked beans, then jam, soup mixes, stock cubes & cooking oil.
It's interesting - since then I have bought some clip-top containers for bringing small amounts into the kitchen. So now we use more of these things on a regular basis.... & the shopping bill has dropped! Next week we're going in to Cash and carry again to replace all that we've used to date and to add other things to ithe store. Kinda double benefit here as our shopping bill has dropped and we have a large buffer as well. (I spent ?200 first time out, but have saved almost that amount off our regular bill since... best buy was the huge sack of porridge for ?5 which I am working my way slowly through one bowl at at time.)
Thing is to keep using and replacing stuff without ever running low. That way food stays in good condition and also you get used to cooking with things that keep. I add barley and lentils to soups & it's very popular. As are the marrowfat peas surprizingly!
We are also scaling up on the veg production. However no F1 seeds for me, as I want to try to save seed from this year's crop for next year. I bought the book from the Real Seeds site http://www.realseeds.co.uk/ about seed saving, so hopefully
I do think these sort of skills are learned best by trial and error, even with the book in hand - I'm sure there are things I won't get quite right first time!
Doing these things does give a sense of security I think.
Sal
We've installed some rain water butts at each down pipe. Just blue plastic barrels with an overflow - it's not just for drinking that you need water.
I've been saving some glass srewtop bottles and jars. I think plastic have a limited life span as they become brittle.
I started a thread earlier about a store we created in the autumn. We bought large sacks/bags of stuff like porridge, pasta, dried peas, lentils, barley, sugar, salt, flour, dried milk, baking soda etc. Also some tins of stuff like baked beans, then jam, soup mixes, stock cubes & cooking oil.
It's interesting - since then I have bought some clip-top containers for bringing small amounts into the kitchen. So now we use more of these things on a regular basis.... & the shopping bill has dropped! Next week we're going in to Cash and carry again to replace all that we've used to date and to add other things to ithe store. Kinda double benefit here as our shopping bill has dropped and we have a large buffer as well. (I spent ?200 first time out, but have saved almost that amount off our regular bill since... best buy was the huge sack of porridge for ?5 which I am working my way slowly through one bowl at at time.)
Thing is to keep using and replacing stuff without ever running low. That way food stays in good condition and also you get used to cooking with things that keep. I add barley and lentils to soups & it's very popular. As are the marrowfat peas surprizingly!
We are also scaling up on the veg production. However no F1 seeds for me, as I want to try to save seed from this year's crop for next year. I bought the book from the Real Seeds site http://www.realseeds.co.uk/ about seed saving, so hopefully
I do think these sort of skills are learned best by trial and error, even with the book in hand - I'm sure there are things I won't get quite right first time!
Doing these things does give a sense of security I think.
Sal
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omega3
Thanks for this invaluable information Sal.Sally wrote: I started a thread earlier about a store we created in the autumn. We bought large sacks/bags of stuff like porridge, pasta, dried peas, lentils, barley, sugar, salt, flour, dried milk, baking soda etc. Also some tins of stuff like baked beans, then jam, soup mixes, stock cubes & cooking oil.
Are there any other web sites or books that you can recommend regarding a list of suitable foods to stockpile?
I was given this site as a link http://www.providentliving.org/content/ ... -1,00.html for food storage amounts. Somewhere on the site you can type in your family ages/sexes etc and they multiply it all up for you.
Link to my other thread is http://www.powerswitch.org.uk/forum/vie ... ight=.html
Link to my other thread is http://www.powerswitch.org.uk/forum/vie ... ight=.html
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omega3
Thanks again.Sally wrote:I was given this site as a link http://www.providentliving.org/content/ ... -1,00.html for food storage amounts. Somewhere on the site you can type in your family ages/sexes etc and they multiply it all up for you.
Link to my other thread is http://www.powerswitch.org.uk/forum/vie ... ight=.html
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Mean Mr Mustard
- Posts: 1555
- Joined: 31 Dec 2006, 12:14
- Location: Cambridgeshire
Been thinking some more about this while out with the dogs. While food stocks are useful, to work out my priorities I gave some thought to what we need, in roughly what order.
Drinking water, warmth, shelter, food, medicine, light, cooking, non-drinking water, transport, communications, entertainment. And a functioning society to be part of.
On that basis the water storage is an obvious vital priority, but easy and near-free to take care of. Point taken about plastic bottles. Luckily Mrs Mustard is a wine maker, with plenty of spare demijohns, bottles and corks. Just a question of putting labels on them and rotating them by date. Anyone know how long bottled water should keep?
Warmth, well, clothing and bedding will supply that if there is no power.
Shelter, soon be all ours and paid for. Need to maintain it so that it will really last, this will be worked on later.
Food, need to work on this more as per Sally's methods. Well stocked but not properly organised. Too much in the freezer!
Medicine. Will stockpile to some extent by re-ordering early but this is my achilles heel as I am on insulin. If there's societal breakdown and that stops for months I'm stuffed.
Lighting. Can we get by with PV recharged lanterns? Is there such a product?
Cooking. Microwave is efficient? BBQ or camping stove for emergency?
Non-drinking water. We have one run-off water butt, already thought about a couple more with pipe connections. Topped off by rotated drinking water backup. Main purpose to water veg patch or for washing in dire emergency.
Transport. Jerrycan and topped up tank while the car is viable. Maybe a few years of a diesel hybrid would extend that viability, I dunno? Bike, bus, train in later years. Just like I did in my 20s, not much of a hardship really. In fact I used to get around faster in town on a pushbike than my car driving mates could. And I used to bike long distances, it's not such a big deal to go 100 miles+ in a day on a good machine, and you don't need to be super-fit to do it, either.
Communications. Internet, phone. Should be fairly resilient, unless we enter Mad Max territory? I have friends worldwide and want to keep in touch.
Entertainment. Limited but better quality TV? Music on rechargable / pv walkmans?
Functioning society. Already doing voluntary work and we have good connections in my village, mainly through various clubs.
Maybe PO downslde isn't as bad as all that. Maybe all we should prepare for is utilities and more basic food at triple current costs? All the fripperies would be gone, but life could still be good if not better than this globalised corporatised mess I see here now.
Mustard
Drinking water, warmth, shelter, food, medicine, light, cooking, non-drinking water, transport, communications, entertainment. And a functioning society to be part of.
On that basis the water storage is an obvious vital priority, but easy and near-free to take care of. Point taken about plastic bottles. Luckily Mrs Mustard is a wine maker, with plenty of spare demijohns, bottles and corks. Just a question of putting labels on them and rotating them by date. Anyone know how long bottled water should keep?
Warmth, well, clothing and bedding will supply that if there is no power.
Shelter, soon be all ours and paid for. Need to maintain it so that it will really last, this will be worked on later.
Food, need to work on this more as per Sally's methods. Well stocked but not properly organised. Too much in the freezer!
Medicine. Will stockpile to some extent by re-ordering early but this is my achilles heel as I am on insulin. If there's societal breakdown and that stops for months I'm stuffed.
Lighting. Can we get by with PV recharged lanterns? Is there such a product?
Cooking. Microwave is efficient? BBQ or camping stove for emergency?
Non-drinking water. We have one run-off water butt, already thought about a couple more with pipe connections. Topped off by rotated drinking water backup. Main purpose to water veg patch or for washing in dire emergency.
Transport. Jerrycan and topped up tank while the car is viable. Maybe a few years of a diesel hybrid would extend that viability, I dunno? Bike, bus, train in later years. Just like I did in my 20s, not much of a hardship really. In fact I used to get around faster in town on a pushbike than my car driving mates could. And I used to bike long distances, it's not such a big deal to go 100 miles+ in a day on a good machine, and you don't need to be super-fit to do it, either.
Communications. Internet, phone. Should be fairly resilient, unless we enter Mad Max territory? I have friends worldwide and want to keep in touch.
Entertainment. Limited but better quality TV? Music on rechargable / pv walkmans?
Functioning society. Already doing voluntary work and we have good connections in my village, mainly through various clubs.
Maybe PO downslde isn't as bad as all that. Maybe all we should prepare for is utilities and more basic food at triple current costs? All the fripperies would be gone, but life could still be good if not better than this globalised corporatised mess I see here now.
Mustard
Let's talk probabilities and impacts:
What would be worse?
1. A sudden overnight loss of gas / electricity / water / petrol / food?
2. General worsening of everything?
I think that #1 is the real bummer ... and could easily be caused by terrorism or Middle East war.
Being without running water or power or food or heating NOW would upset me more than a general recession.
On that basis, get the essentials covered first: water, canned food, lighting, standby electricity, heating etc.
You only need enough for a few days or weeks ... you only need to "out survive" the neighbours!
If you want to cover meteorite impact, earthquake, riots etc then also get an emergency "grab bag" ready too.
Longer term stuff is trickier ... exactly what threat or problem do you envisage?
A gradually worsening recession would affect us all differently. Some people would stockpile medications, others bike inner tubes or smart shoes.
What would be worse?
1. A sudden overnight loss of gas / electricity / water / petrol / food?
2. General worsening of everything?
I think that #1 is the real bummer ... and could easily be caused by terrorism or Middle East war.
Being without running water or power or food or heating NOW would upset me more than a general recession.
On that basis, get the essentials covered first: water, canned food, lighting, standby electricity, heating etc.
You only need enough for a few days or weeks ... you only need to "out survive" the neighbours!
If you want to cover meteorite impact, earthquake, riots etc then also get an emergency "grab bag" ready too.
Longer term stuff is trickier ... exactly what threat or problem do you envisage?
A gradually worsening recession would affect us all differently. Some people would stockpile medications, others bike inner tubes or smart shoes.
3. A US attack on Iran, followed by the sinking of all carriers in the gulf and a blocked Strait of Hormuz. The IEA-countries have stockpiles for some three months, but the resulting panic could be devastating, including very, very high oil prices. The "JIT-bug" can cause significant pain if to many people decide to top up the thank, "just in case".Vortex wrote:Let's talk probabilities and impacts:
What would be worse?
1. A sudden overnight loss of gas / electricity / water / petrol / food?
2. General worsening of everything?
All in all, I think that the complexities of our modern societies make just about ANY kind of prediction pretty impossible.
I tend to distrust both BAU's and survivalists, but I think it is just prudent to be able to survive in relative comfort for a week or two without heating or electricity. Just like keeping a spare tyre in the car, although it's almost never needed. Or like having a home insurance, even if houses rarely burn.
If we talk about serious "survivalism" there is really no limit to how much stuff to tuck away - figure I could have use for a barn if I went in that direction. All that stuff is products of a complex society, and if said society goes down, the stuff will never re-appear on any shelves. Such a stash would make you a target for thieves, and is probably a bad idea.
If society goes down, things will start to re-organize themselves on a lower energy level after some time, and possibly after some deaths. In the emerging world, stuff will eventually start to re-appear, but it will be different stuff - more suitable to the new conditions. Recycled stuff.
All in all, I dont think I can predict the future, but since there are so many rumors about a US attack on Iran, I will stock up on seeds and some 100 kg of potatoes next week. If I wont have to plant this spring, I have some friendly sheep nearby who find raw potatoes delicious. The rest is pretty much covered.
Sometimes I think that our society has incredible inertia & resiliance ...All in all, I think that the complexities of our modern societies make just about ANY kind of prediction pretty impossible.
At other times I think of that 3 days food buffer we have, mostly on the back of supermarket lorries.
Water? Everyone would get by in an emergency ... although some water in store could be a very good idea!
Fuel? Most people have 1/2 a tank and maybe 2 or 3 cars per household. That would do for a week or two in most cases.
Medications? That's a mid to long term issue.
Heating? Warm clothes can help short term.
Lighting? Daylight can be used ...
So that leaves ... FOOD .... how much lee-way do we have here nationally? Where does all that super market food come from?
I know the shipping is Just In Time ... but do we have the food growing/storage infrastructure in the UK to support that, even in hard times?
Unless otherwise advised I suspect that FOOD should be #1 on the list.
Amongst other things, I am storing zillions of vitamin pills ... cheap and yet could be VITAL one day ...
Agree on both. Food for three weeks -which could be stretched to five with some rationing- is basic. And the means to cook it. I would feel MUCH more secure if I knew that my neighbors also had that. As it is now, I make sure that they dont know that I have it...Vortex wrote:Unless otherwise advised I suspect that FOOD should be #1 on the list.
Amongst other things, I am storing zillions of vitamin pills ... cheap and yet could be VITAL one day ...
Vitamin pills are probably on roughly the same timescale as seed potatoes.
I dont believe the stored stuff will be needed, but I dont believe I will crash with the car either. Still I have the car insured.
Edit: Forgot one thing on the long timescale: SALT! There is really no limit to how much salt to stock. I dont hesitate to talk about TONS of the stuff. It could take quite some time before the old salt trade routes comes back, and salt is such an essential thing for preserving food.
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Mean Mr Mustard
- Posts: 1555
- Joined: 31 Dec 2006, 12:14
- Location: Cambridgeshire
Now you're getting into impact analysis and proper business continuity planning type principles. Interesting to apply that to a domestic setting. Hurricane Katrina should have taught us one thing - we absolutely need drinkable water first. And here in East Anglia, to get water, we need electricity, because most of it's pumped.
The water preparation thoughts come down to probability (low) (which is where 99.9% of people stop thinking
) vs impact (high) 
(you soon dehydrate and die) and mitigation by pre-planning (easy, almost free) 
.
And as we move away from immediate impacts such as terrorism or bird flu, solar flares, famine, war, pestilence, four horsemen etc etc, we get into longer term more expensive stuff like buying gold as a hedge against a busted currency, or planting veg or self sufficient communal living because the business as usual energy is way more expensive, if not completely unavailable.
The chatter amongst the peakniks and talk of running for the hills armed to the teeth (maybe appropriate for South Africa or Texas) makes getting the mundane preparations and actions vs effects in the right order a tad confusing. Acting sensibly and spending money for best effect does need some careful thinking, which is why I riased this topic, being relatively new to PO. I'd imagine many contributing to this most excellent friendly and helpful site will have already thought this sort of stuff through.
And in the case of Iran, yup, that's why I bought the jerrycan and will keep the car topped up! Web chat seen here suggests we have till end February.
Being community spirited as I am, should I tell my neighbour with his patio heater what to expect?
The water preparation thoughts come down to probability (low) (which is where 99.9% of people stop thinking
) vs impact (high) (you soon dehydrate and die) and mitigation by pre-planning (easy, almost free) . And as we move away from immediate impacts such as terrorism or bird flu, solar flares, famine, war, pestilence, four horsemen etc etc, we get into longer term more expensive stuff like buying gold as a hedge against a busted currency, or planting veg or self sufficient communal living because the business as usual energy is way more expensive, if not completely unavailable.
The chatter amongst the peakniks and talk of running for the hills armed to the teeth (maybe appropriate for South Africa or Texas) makes getting the mundane preparations and actions vs effects in the right order a tad confusing. Acting sensibly and spending money for best effect does need some careful thinking, which is why I riased this topic, being relatively new to PO. I'd imagine many contributing to this most excellent friendly and helpful site will have already thought this sort of stuff through.
And in the case of Iran, yup, that's why I bought the jerrycan and will keep the car topped up! Web chat seen here suggests we have till end February.
Being community spirited as I am, should I tell my neighbour with his patio heater what to expect?
I totally 100% agree and that has been my main concern regarding possible future events. The funny thing is you probably do not need to prepare - when Joe Public rushes to the supermarket at the start of a problem be it snow or an interuption in our food supply, just let them buy all the bread, milk and fresh stuff and pick up what none of them want ie the flour, milk powder, vitamins and minerals, first aid stuff rofl you know what I meanVortex wrote:Sometimes I think that our society has incredible inertia & resiliance ...All in all, I think that the complexities of our modern societies make just about ANY kind of prediction pretty impossible.
At other times I think of that 3 days food buffer we have, mostly on the back of supermarket lorries.
Water? Everyone would get by in an emergency ... although some water in store could be a very good idea!
Fuel? Most people have 1/2 a tank and maybe 2 or 3 cars per household. That would do for a week or two in most cases.
Medications? That's a mid to long term issue.
Heating? Warm clothes can help short term.
Lighting? Daylight can be used ...
So that leaves ... FOOD .... how much lee-way do we have here nationally? Where does all that super market food come from?
I know the shipping is Just In Time ... but do we have the food growing/storage infrastructure in the UK to support that, even in hard times?
Unless otherwise advised I suspect that FOOD should be #1 on the list.
Amongst other things, I am storing zillions of vitamin pills ... cheap and yet could be VITAL one day ...
Whilst this really should be funny, in reality with people today that is exactly what would happen they'd leave all the survival essentials behind - its just sad what has Joe Public become.Cracking post though Vortex
How long does insulin keep? My nephew has type 1 diabetes and I've never asked about what stocks his parents keep for him.Mean Mr Mustard wrote:Medicine. Will stockpile to some extent by re-ordering early but this is my achilles heel as I am on insulin. If there's societal breakdown and that stops for months I'm stuffed.
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Mean Mr Mustard
- Posts: 1555
- Joined: 31 Dec 2006, 12:14
- Location: Cambridgeshire
I'm Type 1 too. Insulin keeps outside the fridge (ie installed in the pen and carried around) for 28 days. It doesn't like extremes of temperature though.
I wonder if a small PV fridge might be worth having later on to ensure the insulin keeps through any extended outage. I worry a little more about the fragility of the insulin supply chain, to be honest, I don't know what it takes to manufacture the stuff - I think it's made in Denmark. Maybe this would be an interesting general article for Balance, the Diabetes UK house journal.
Sally - there's one thing I must absolutely recommend for any Type 1 diabetic - get signed up for a DAFNE course. (Dose adjustment for normal eating) It's a real life changer, frees you from all sorts of problems. I'll look up the url and get back.
I wonder if a small PV fridge might be worth having later on to ensure the insulin keeps through any extended outage. I worry a little more about the fragility of the insulin supply chain, to be honest, I don't know what it takes to manufacture the stuff - I think it's made in Denmark. Maybe this would be an interesting general article for Balance, the Diabetes UK house journal.
Sally - there's one thing I must absolutely recommend for any Type 1 diabetic - get signed up for a DAFNE course. (Dose adjustment for normal eating) It's a real life changer, frees you from all sorts of problems. I'll look up the url and get back.