The Trump presidency.

[kenneal - lagger]

The problems in the ME won't be resolved until the hatred between Sunnis and Shias is resolved. Until then there will be a civil war between Iranian backed Shias and Saudi backed Sunnis. As the US backs the Saudis Russia must back the Iranians to gain any influence in the area. Even if the Israeli problem could be resolved there would still be civil war in the ME. A redrawing of boundaries might lessen the problem or it could make it worse as currently separated communities came together into larger more powerful entities. Turkey certainly doesn't want the Kurds to unite and they would probably not be too keen to see a major Shia nation on their doorstep,

[Little John]

I can agree with much of that Ken. But, then, of course, the ridiculous physical borders that run right across ethnic and religious cultural borders were drawn up by the British and Americans around the time of Lawrence and that process of complete wanton ignorance of these cultural divides continues to this day and the only way that such artificial borders have been maintainable is via incredibly brutal dictators that the Yank-led West has actively engaged in levering into power just so long as they promise to play "nice" vis-a-vis Western interests. But, when they or, indeed any other leader in the region, have not played "nice", our dear leaders have then set about arming the biggest nutters in the region to overturn them and then held up their hands (or, at least, pretended to) at the horror that has ensued.

Russia did not set the Middle East on fire and Russia's involvement in Syria was at Syria's request and has limited itself to Syria. In short, Russia's actions have been restrained in the extreme, given the provocations.

[Mark]

The democratically elected and full supported (by the vast majority of the Syrian people), aided by Russia (at Syria's request) has put an end to the destruction of Syria, with all of the the horrors that would have followed that destruction (remember Iraq and Libya?), by defeating the the Yank invention known as ISIS.

Democratically elected.....?
Fully supported...............?
There's an end to the destruction of Syria, really......?
All the horrors that 'would' have followed.....?

I'm no supporter of Assad or ISIS - they're as bad as each other.....
I just know that Russia's involvement isn't helping matters.
We'll have to see about Trump, but the feeling in my water isn't good.....

[Little John]

Democratically elected.....?

Yes, check out the election in 2014. You are simply ignorant of the facts. I could choose to excuse your ignorance here, by saying it is due to the wall of lies and propaganda that has been put out by our MSM. But, you are obviously a reasonably educated man, so that excuse is not available to you.

Fully supported...............?

By the vast majority of the Syrian people - yes. But, don't take my word for that. Look at the mid 2014 election results in the midst of the Yank Invented, funded and coordinated ISIS insurgency. Again, ignorance is no excuse.

There's an end to the destruction of Syria, really......?

Yes, ISIS and their various head-chopping lunatic affiliates, in case you hadn't already noticed. have been defeated. Accompanied, by spontaneous celebrations of the Syrian people all across Syria. Though, of course, this has been virtually not reported at all in the MSM. Once again, however, ignorance is no excuse.

All the horrors that 'would' have followed.....?

Are you actually being serious now or are you just taking the piss?

I'm no supporter of Assad or ISIS - they're as bad as each other.....
I just know that Russia's involvement isn't helping matters.
We'll have to see about Trump, but the feeling in my water isn't good.....

Either you are quite fantastically ill-informed, for whatever reason, or you are coming out with this nonsense for other reasons.

[johnhemming2]

I can agree with much of that Ken. But, then, of course, the ridiculous physical borders that run right across ethnic and religious cultural borders were drawn up by the British and Americans around the time of Lawrence and that process of complete wanton ignorance of these cultural divides continues to this day and the only way that such artificial borders have been maintainable is via incredibly brutal dictators that the Yank-led West has actively engaged in levering into power just so long as they promise to play "nice" vis-a-vis Western interests. But, when they or, indeed any other leader in the region, have not played "nice", our dear leaders have then set about arming the biggest nutters in the region to overturn them and then held up their hands (or, at least, pretended to) at the horror that has ensued.

Russia did not set the Middle East on fire and Russia's involvement in Syria was at Syria's request and has limited itself to Syria. In short, Russia's actions have been restrained in the extreme, given the provocations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes%E2% ... _Agreement

[kenneal - lagger]

Being pedantic, I thought the Middle East was carved up by Britain and France and the borders might have been chosen precisely to carve up the communities on the "Divide and Rule" principal; the weaker the states are by being a mixture of cultures the less they are likely to fight the colonial powers and each other. It has worked from that point of view.

The EU had been concocting a similar plan by carving countries up into regions with part of the UK joining with the north of France to form a region with its own government while the UK government becomes defunct. In the EU's case they were trying to remove any feelings of nationality so that they could "divide and rule" themselves.

[woodburner]

Democratically elected.....?

Yes, check out the election in 2014. You are simply ignorant of the facts. I could choose to excuse your ignorance here, by saying it is due to the wall of lies and propaganda that has been put out by our MSM. But, you are obviously a reasonably educated man, so that excuse is not available to you.

Despite moderator intervention in another topic, I see the etiquette of critising the idea and not the person is cast aside, again.

[Little John]

I can agree with much of that Ken. But, then, of course, the ridiculous physical borders that run right across ethnic and religious cultural borders were drawn up by the British and Americans around the time of Lawrence and that process of complete wanton ignorance of these cultural divides continues to this day and the only way that such artificial borders have been maintainable is via incredibly brutal dictators that the Yank-led West has actively engaged in levering into power just so long as they promise to play "nice" vis-a-vis Western interests. But, when they or, indeed any other leader in the region, have not played "nice", our dear leaders have then set about arming the biggest nutters in the region to overturn them and then held up their hands (or, at least, pretended to) at the horror that has ensued.

Russia did not set the Middle East on fire and Russia's involvement in Syria was at Syria's request and has limited itself to Syria. In short, Russia's actions have been restrained in the extreme, given the provocations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes%E2% ... _Agreement

Yes, indeed, I will concede that the French played their own significant part in this ongoing process, as have many of the major Western powers, either directly or indirectly.

[clv101]

I just know that Russia's involvement isn't helping matters.

How do you know? From where I'm sitting Russia's recent involvement looks to have helped matters in Syria. With any luck Syria will now pull back from the brink and won't end up like Libya. The folk who really haven't helped is 'the west', if Assad had been overthrown by our bombs (aided by some 'moderates', ha!), I expect we'd today be looking at another Libya and a far stronger ISIS.

[johnhemming2]

I can agree with much of that Ken. But, then, of course, the ridiculous physical borders that run right across ethnic and religious cultural borders were drawn up by the British and Americans around the time of Lawrence and that process of complete wanton ignorance of these cultural divides continues to this day and the only way that such artificial borders have been maintainable is via incredibly brutal dictators that the Yank-led West has actively engaged in levering into power just so long as they promise to play "nice" vis-a-vis Western interests. But, when they or, indeed any other leader in the region, have not played "nice", our dear leaders have then set about arming the biggest nutters in the region to overturn them and then held up their hands (or, at least, pretended to) at the horror that has ensued.

Russia did not set the Middle East on fire and Russia's involvement in Syria was at Syria's request and has limited itself to Syria. In short, Russia's actions have been restrained in the extreme, given the provocations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes%E2% ... _Agreement

Yes, indeed, I will concede that the French played their own significant part in this ongoing process, as have many of the major Western powers, either directly or indirectly.

It was the British, French and Russians not the Americans. Not that it really matters as that was a while ago although it demonstrates the arrogance of human beings and their unwillingness to attempt to understand the viewpoint of others.

[raspberry-blower]

Being pedantic, I thought the Middle East was carved up by Britain and France and the borders might have been chosen precisely to carve up the communities on the "Divide and Rule" principal; the weaker the states are by being a mixture of cultures the less they are likely to fight the colonial powers and each other. It has worked from that point of view.

The EU had been concocting a similar plan by carving countries up into regions with part of the UK joining with the north of France to form a region with its own government while the UK government becomes defunct. In the EU's case they were trying to remove any feelings of nationality so that they could "divide and rule" themselves.

Ken, you may find this article an interesting read: Wahhabism and Zionism The Twin Cancers Destroying the Middle East

[raspberry-blower]

Back to the original topic:

John Pilger: The Issue is not Trump, It's us

The seedbed is Obama's Weimar Republic, a landscape of endemic poverty, militarized police and barbaric prisons, the consequence of a "market" extremism which, under his presidency, prompted the transfer of US$14 trillion in public money to criminal enterprises in Wall Street.

Perhaps his greatest "legacy" is the co-option and disorientation of any real opposition. Bernie Sanders' specious "revolution" does not apply. Propaganda is his triumph.

The lies about Russia — in whose elections the U.S. has openly intervened — have made the world's most self-important journalists laughing stocks. In the country with constitutionally the freest press in the world, free journalism now exists only in its honorable exceptions.

The obsession with Trump is a cover for many of those calling themselves "left/liberal," as if to claim political decency. They are not "left," neither are they especially "liberal." Much of the United States' aggression towards the rest of humanity has come from so-called liberal democratic administrations such as Obama's. The U.S.' political spectrum extends from the mythical center to the lunar right. The "left" are homeless renegades Martha Gellhorn described as "a rare and wholly admirable fraternity." She excluded those who confuse politics with a fixation on their navels.

While they "heal" and "move forward," will the Writers Resist campaigners and other anti-Trumpists reflect upon this? More to the point: when will a genuine movement of opposition arise — angry, eloquent, all-for-one-and-one-for all. Until real politics return to people's lives, the enemy is not Trump, it is ourselves.

[Little John]

God help me. Yes, to all of that.

[Mark]

All the horrors that 'would' have followed.....?

Are you actually being serious now or are you just taking the piss?

I think you might find that 'all the horrors' have already occurred....
Your use of 'would' presupposes that horrors haven't already occurred...
From we've all seen/read, both sides have committed terrible atrocities in Syria.
It's not black/white or good vrs evil.....

I'm against all external involvement - Russia, US, UK, France, Turkey, Saudi, Iran, as I believe that it only makes a bad situation worse......
ISIS have not been destroyed - they'll just pop up in another form in another place....
We've already seen that in Belgium, France, Germany, Turkey, Tunisia......

[Little John]

All the horrors that 'would' have followed.....?

Are you actually being serious now or are you just taking the piss?

I think you might find that 'all the horrors' have already occurred....
Your use of 'would' presupposes that horrors haven't already occurred...
From we've all seen/read, both sides have committed terrible atrocities in Syria.
It's not black/white or good vrs evil.....

I'm against all external involvement - Russia, US, UK, France, Turkey, Saudi, Iran, as I believe that it only makes a bad situation worse......
ISIS have not been destroyed - they'll just pop up in another form in another place....
We've already seen that in Belgium, France, Germany, Turkey, Tunisia......

Tell me Mark - where do you think ISIS come from? Where do you suppose they got all of their arms from? Do you actually know?