"Blue Sky Thinking" about Heathrow

Our transport is heavily oil-based. What are the alternatives?

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biffvernon
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Post by biffvernon »

Plane Stupid conviction:
http://www.livescience.com/53468-how-li ... treak.html

Green Party wrote:25 January 2016

The Green Party of England and Wales has issued a statement in support of a group of environmental activists called the Heathrow 13 who were found guilty today of “aggravated trespass”.

Green Party deputy leader, Shahrar Ali, who attended a demonstration in solidarity with the Heathrow 13 outside the court on the trial’s first day, said:

“I am deeply disappointed by the irony of this judgement. The Judge finds the Heathrow 13 guilty of Aggravated Trespass and their actions in need of punishment. Yet alongside the support shown for them beyond the courtroom her acknowledgement that the campaigners are ‘principled’ demonstrates the legitimacy of their cause.

“Bigger airports make no climate sense. The UK cannot make its contribution to cutting carbon emissions while expanding airports and increasing emissions from aviation. Greens applaud the determination of the Heathrow 13 for standing up for increased numbers of residents who will suffer enormously from increasing noise and air pollution if expansion gets the go-ahead at any London airport.

“We proudly stand alongside these activists who had the courage and foresight to stand up for the well-being of not just today's citizens but tomorrow's, too.”
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emordnilap
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Post by emordnilap »

I live near Shannon airport and even mild criticism of flying brings down utter ire upon the critic and a refusal to acknowledge the huge subsidies flying in general and this airport in particular receive.

Shannon airport is seen as a golden egg in a largely rural area; many jobs are dependent upon it, in particular those in the free zone.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
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PS_RalphW
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Post by PS_RalphW »

Heathrow 3rd runway approved.

Will it ever get built? There seem to be more legal pitfalls than for new nuclear, political opposition is higher up in the hierarchy .

If it takes another 3 years to get to final clearance we could be well into the next oil price spike and financial meltdown.
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

We can only hope, Ralph. When it was last proposed a protest group was asking for ideas for holding up the start of the works. I suggested them kitting out a 40ft container as living accommodation with rations for weeks and then lifting it onto a couple of screw piles in the ground and bolting/welding it down through the floor. It would take ages for tptb to work our how to remove that! They would have to arrange some drainage as well and a filtered air supply to avoid any problems with tear gas or similar.
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PS_RalphW
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Post by PS_RalphW »

Zac Goldsmith resigns as MP.

Good chance of the LIb Dems winning back the seat on anti Brexit anti Heathrow swing.

(In fact the combination more or less guarantees it).
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adam2
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Post by adam2 »

I still rather doubt that it will be built, still time for a few more years of studies and consultations, followed by legal appeals and a judicial review.

According to the "remain in the EU" lobby, brexit would result in a large decline in both trade and passenger travel, and should have negated the need for airport expansion.
Yet now that we have voted for brexit it is said that we need more airport capacity ?
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
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emordnilap
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Post by emordnilap »

PS_RalphW wrote:Zac Goldsmith resigns as MP.

Good chance of the LIb Dems winning back the seat on anti Brexit anti Heathrow swing.

(In fact the combination more or less guarantees it).
Surely he'd get back in as an independent?
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
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PS_RalphW
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Post by PS_RalphW »

The seat used to be Liberal. By standing as an Independent Zac would force the Tories to put up their own candidate, splitting the Tory vote. Combined with Brexit and the usual by-election swing, it becomes a shoe-in for the Liberals.

Only if the Tories don't stand will Zac be elected.
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emordnilap
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Post by emordnilap »

PS_RalphW wrote:The seat used to be Liberal. By standing as an Independent Zac would force the Tories to put up their own candidate, splitting the Tory vote. Combined with Brexit and the usual by-election swing, it becomes a shoe-in for the Liberals.

Only if the Tories don't stand will Zac be elected.
Right, thanks.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
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Mark
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Post by Mark »

I believe the Tories have said that they won't stand......
Zac should get back in and be a vocal opponent....
The Tories hope he'll be loyal on all other issues.....

Here's a plan of the proposed location:
http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsp ... at_624.jpg
Pepperman
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Post by Pepperman »

PS_RalphW wrote:The seat used to be Liberal. By standing as an Independent Zac would force the Tories to put up their own candidate, splitting the Tory vote. Combined with Brexit and the usual by-election swing, it becomes a shoe-in for the Liberals.

Only if the Tories don't stand will Zac be elected.
Not so sure about that. There's a chance but he has a fairly healthy majority. It looks like the Tories aren't putting up another candidate because it would split the vote and give the Lib Dems an even bigger chance of getting in. [ETA: which is what you said, sorry, got confused]

One interesting twist is that data protection rules probably mean that he can't make use of Tory email and address lists so it might become quite difficult for him to get his message out.
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Mark
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Post by Mark »

http://www.airportwatch.org.uk/2015/11/ ... n-exports/
http://www.caa.co.uk/Data-and-analysis/ ... 0-onwards/

CAA data for 2014 shows the total air freight at Heathrow was 1,501,906 tonnes.
Heathrow’s proportion of long haul, non-EU, air freight is 94% of the total by weight.
Heathrow in 2014 handled around 77.6% of the UK’s long haul non-EU air freight by weight.
About 93.5% of Heathrow’s air freight is long haul non-EU.
The next biggest is East Midlands airport, whose proportion of all UK EU air freight is 15.9% by weight.

A simple way to relieve pressure on Heathrow would seem to be to move all this freight traffic elsewhere..... East Midlands / Doncaster are central in the country and good for the Motorway network.....
I imagine a lot of the goods will be perishable foods - Asparagus from Peru and Beans from Kenya, destined for supermarkets across the country....
Pepperman
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Post by Pepperman »

The problem with that idea is that the vast majority of air freight (I forget what percentage) is transported in the holds of passenger aircraft. There aren't that many dedicated freighters or combis out there.
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Mark
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Post by Mark »

Pepperman wrote:The problem with that idea is that the vast majority of air freight (I forget what percentage) is transported in the holds of passenger aircraft. There aren't that many dedicated freighters or combis out there.
Maybe it needs some 'blue sky thinking' by the carriers then.....??
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emordnilap
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Post by emordnilap »

Heh heh. BA boss shocked to find out that third Heathrow runway will raze his HQ
Both IAG and British Airways are based at Waterside in Harmondsworth, which opened in 1998 at a cost of £200m and sits in a 115-hectare (280-acre) manmade park. Walsh said the HQ was “a fantastic environmental achievement on our part”.

However, it looks unlikely to stay that way. “The first I saw of it was when the Airport Commission report came out and I saw a map and I thought, that looks very close to Waterside,” Walsh said. “Then I discovered it actually went right through Waterside.”

Walsh’s grievance over his doomed HQ has been compounded by the prospect of being effectively charged for the compensation bill.
Yeah, fantastic, Willie.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
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