EU membership referendum debate thread

Potemkin Villager · Post by **Potemkin Villager** » 05 Oct 2016, 19:03

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/pound ... 00076.html

"The pair is currently at their lowest level since March 1985, when the pound neared parity with the U.S. dollar amid an acrimonious miners' strike in the U.K."

And project Brexit hasn't even got going yet! Presumably this feeds through into higher fuel, transport etc prices in the UK.

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 05 Oct 2016, 19:50

A reduction in Sterling does, however, help increase exports and increase the price of imports (reducing them).

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 05 Oct 2016, 20:34

The government has been trying for years to reduce the value of the pound. Now they've managed it and a lot of people are complaining! No pleasing some people!!

Potemkin Villager · Post by **Potemkin Villager** » 05 Oct 2016, 21:28

An announcement of an increase in exports is not likely to be a great vote winner or produce a great feel good factor.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 06 Oct 2016, 00:36

Potemkin Villager wrote:An announcement of an increase in exports is not likely to be a great vote winner or produce a great feel good factor.

Why not? If you are working in the factory producing the goods being exported you will have job security and perhaps a bit of overtime pay.

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 06 Oct 2016, 01:17

And you'll need the overtime if you're buying any goods from abroad.

Post by **clv101** » 06 Oct 2016, 07:10

vtsnowedin wrote:
Potemkin Villager wrote:An announcement of an increase in exports is not likely to be a great vote winner or produce a great feel good factor.
Why not? If you are working in the factory producing the goods being exported you will have job security and perhaps a bit of overtime pay.

The story of the last few decades is while the value of UK manufacturing has remained high, the employment associated with it has dramatically fallen. I relatively small proportion of the workforce actually work in the businesses that benefit from a weaker currency.

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 06 Oct 2016, 07:13

An important point about manufacturing viz that it is more automated than it used to be. It is not, however, trivial from an economic position.

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 06 Oct 2016, 08:53

johnhemming2 wrote:An important point about manufacturing viz that it is more automated than it used to be. It is not, however, trivial from an economic position.

For government statistics that might be ok, but if most of the benefitting businesses are automated it means money does not go into many people's pockets, but into the pockets of owners and shareholders. As ever was, the rich get richer and the poor get nothing, while politicians tell them how well the "country" is doing.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 06 Oct 2016, 09:04

woodburner wrote:
johnhemming2 wrote:An important point about manufacturing viz that it is more automated than it used to be. It is not, however, trivial from an economic position.
For government statistics that might be ok, but if most of the benefitting businesses are automated it means money does not go into many people's pockets, but into the pockets of owners and shareholders. As ever was, the rich get richer and the poor get nothing, while politicians tell them how well the "country" is doing.

Sounds like your best option is to buy shares in companies that build robots and other automated machinery.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 06 Oct 2016, 09:09

woodburner wrote:
johnhemming2 wrote:An important point about manufacturing viz that it is more automated than it used to be. It is not, however, trivial from an economic position.
For government statistics that might be ok, but if most of the benefitting businesses are automated it means money does not go into many people's pockets, but into the pockets of owners and shareholders. As ever was, the rich get richer and the poor get nothing, while politicians tell them how well the "country" is doing.

That's not a problem limited to the merely the manufacturing sector of the economy. Automation is a problem endemic to all sectors. From coffee vending machines to automated supermarket checkouts. In other words, the seeds of its own destruction, first alluded to by Marx.

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 06 Oct 2016, 12:29

Not quite. Who would do without an automatic washing machine?

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 06 Oct 2016, 13:04

woodburner wrote:Not quite. Who would do without an automatic washing machine?

Automation, including washing machines, only works so long as the broader economy can grow and diversify thus providing new jobs for workers displaced by automation. On a finite planet, where the limits of physical growth are now firmly in sight, automation no longer works. This is now where we are.

Potemkin Villager · Post by **Potemkin Villager** » 06 Oct 2016, 14:17

And meanwhile the devaluing pound in the pocket of these folk buys less and less & cheer them up sunny holidays in Spain are going to become less and less affordable.

Yes weak Sterling is a real vote loser.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 06 Oct 2016, 14:26

There are reports of export-reliant companies in Ireland going out of business as a direct result of sterling's weakness. Though I don't like to see individuals cast out of work, Little John's comment resonates (even though not strictly comparable). Self-reliance is a thing of the past, old-fashioned, redundant.