Are we on the brink of an electric car revolution?

[PS_RalphW]

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/new ... -longevity

Just another scientific press release, but little by little better batteries are coming.

Of course. even the ideal battery (very small volume and weight, fast and efficient charge and discharge, long life, non-toxic, low cost and embedded energy, made from common materials and safe in operation and accidents)
is still only incrementally better than what we have now, which is basically an unsustainable personal transport based economy, with people driving cars far too big, far to powerful, far too fast, far too often and far too far, usually by themselves.

[PS_RalphW]

http://insideevs.com/chevrolet-bolt-fir ... e-reports/

Chevy Bot gets 240 -290 miles range in real world driving and 60KWh battery.

My 24KWh battery gets 80 - 100 miles real world .

The main question is going to be price.

[Potemkin Villager]

......basically an unsustainable personal transport based economy, with people driving cars far too big, far to powerful, far too fast, far too often and far too far, usually by themselves.

I suppose you could add far too expensive, far too complex and far too difficult and expensive to fix when they go wrong and driven by folk who feel far too entitled, who are far too complacent.........

[vtsnowedin]

......basically an unsustainable personal transport based economy, with people driving cars far too big, far to powerful, far too fast, far too often and far too far, usually by themselves.

I suppose you could add far too expensive, far too complex and far too difficult and expensive to fix when they go wrong and driven by folk who feel far too entitled, who are far too complacent.........

Driving around Atlanta GA. this week I have to agree with all of thouse "far toos". And now they have a gas shortage caused by a pipeline break. Next week the plugin electrics may have eight lanes of shimmering concrete pavement all to themselves.😍

[Potemkin Villager]

Owners of plug in electrics better watch out, speed up and take pronto evasive action if they intend to smugly drive by heavily armed and very highly enraged and pissed off owners of stranded ICE vehicles ...........

[vtsnowedin]

Owners of plug in electrics better watch out, speed up and take pronto evasive action if they intend to smugly drive by heavily armed and very highly enraged and pissed off owners of stranded ICE vehicles ...........

Most of the ICE cars will get stranded in a driveway or parking lot not out on the highway. The owners will know they don't have enough gas to get to their next destination so will use other means or not go at all. I remember the gas lines of the seventies. People were angry but there was very little violence.

[woodburner]

Revolution or not, here's a report on the latest stupidity for an eco-friendly (not) electric car.

[PS_RalphW]

I have had my Nissan Leaf over a year now so I have a good idea of its overall performance.

I ahve done about 4500 miles in it, with an average reported economy 4.3 miles/KWh, however that is the Nissan figure for the electricity coming out of the batteries. My charging port has its own meter and that gives a wire to wheel figure of about 3.8 miles /KWh, indicating the charging losses.

I have generally done low speed driving, rarely above 60mph, and no more than about 70 miles in one day. I have only charged the battery to 80%, and rarely dropped its level below 20%. Range in winter is noticeably lower and that is with the absolute minimum of in car heating, mostly to keep the windscreen from misting up. It gets very cold driving in subzero temperatures .

The car itself is a dream to drive, especially in slow commuter traffic where it is at its most efficient. I have scared a few pedestrians with it being so quiet, but not hit any.

I have not tried to do long distances, and have driven the diesel more than I intended due to changing circumstances.

According to Nissan I am consistently in the top 20% of Leaf drivers for efficiency, so I suspect most drivers get noticeably worse figures.

I buy my electricity from ecotricity and charge mostly in daytime hours. This make the cost about 5p a mile. That is not much cheaper than the diesel which is about 7-8p a mile. Servicing is cheaper but insurance is a bit higher.

My wife has twice done cosmetic rearrangement of the bodywork

[clv101]

This make the cost about 5p a mile. That is not much cheaper than the diesel which is about 7-8p a mile.

These are interesting numbers. That's the sticker price to you, but take the 5% VAT and the 13% 'environment and social obligation costs' off the electricity and the 185% duty and VAT off the diesel to leave the real cost of the energy:

Electric: 4.1p/mile
Diesel: 2.6p/mile

Personally I think ~all the investment and expenditure currently going into electric cars should go into reducing the carbon intensity of the grid supply. The bang per buck is much better there.

[vtsnowedin]

This make the cost about 5p a mile. That is not much cheaper than the diesel which is about 7-8p a mile.

These are interesting numbers. That's the sticker price to you, but take the 5% VAT and the 13% 'environment and social obligation costs' off the electricity and the 185% duty and VAT off the diesel to leave the real cost of the energy:

Electric: 4.1p/mile
Diesel: 2.6p/mile

Personally I think ~all the investment and expenditure currently going into electric cars should go into reducing the carbon intensity of the grid supply. The bang per buck is much better there.

I'd have to see some figures before I could jump on that bandwagon. UK numbers are of course quite different then the USA's but our ten million barrels a day of gasoline consumption just to drive around in one occupant ICE engine cars is one hell of a carbon footprint that needs to be worked on at the same time as they are doing what can be done to decarbonise the electricity supply.

[PS_RalphW]

Remember I drive a 1.2l diesel mostly on long journeys returning 60mpg+. You can double that 7-8p a mile figure for an average car. Also since owning it I have spent another 8-10p a mile in unscheduled repairs to the engine and exhaust systems. Also that is current fuel prices. They have been and soon will be much higher again.

In pure energy terms 1KWh of renewable energy drives the car 3.8 miles. My diesel uses 1KWh of fossil fuel for each 1.3 miles

[vtsnowedin]

Remember I drive a 1.2l diesel mostly on long journeys returning 60mpg+. You can double that 7-8p a mile figure for an average car. Also since owning it I have spent another 8-10p a mile in unscheduled repairs to the engine and exhaust systems. Also that is current fuel prices. They have been and soon will be much higher again.

In pure energy terms 1KWh of renewable energy drives the car 3.8 miles. My diesel uses 1KWh of fossil fuel for each 1.3 miles

Interesting. What are the weights of the respective vehicles and do you think body shape and drag is a significant difference between them? At first glance if the diesel was thirty percent efficient, tank to tires, then the electric might be 88 % efficient. That sounds about right.

[PS_RalphW]

The electric car is about 10-20% heavier. However it has regenerative braking which gives me about 50-90 Wh/mile back for each 250-300 Wh/mile spent driving the wheels. In the diesel, I use MORE power to control the brakes to slow down. The electric has a better drag coefficient, but has a bigger cross section.

In the real world, a diesel is only 30% efficient under ideal conditions. Half the time it is a lot less efficient than that.

[vtsnowedin]

The electric car is about 10-20% heavier. However it has regenerative braking which gives me about 50-90 Wh/mile back for each 250-300 Wh/mile spent driving the wheels. In the diesel, I use MORE power to control the brakes to slow down. The electric has a better drag coefficient, but has a bigger cross section.

In the real world, a diesel is only 30% efficient under ideal conditions. Half the time it is a lot less efficient than that.

Well of course. Sitting still at a traffic light it is zero percent efficient. The electric car doesn't waste any energy keeping the motors turning at the same light.
I would expect the friction loss of disk brakes to add up to more then the actual energy lost when the brakes are applied. It is a small thing but as it is working against you for every mile it adds up.

[woodburner]

The electric car is about 10-20% heavier. However it has regenerative braking which gives me about 50-90 Wh/mile back for each 250-300 Wh/mile spent driving the wheels. In the diesel, I use MORE power to control the brakes to slow down. The electric has a better drag coefficient, but has a bigger cross section.

In the real world, a diesel is only 30% efficient under ideal conditions. Half the time it is a lot less efficient than that.

An electric car has it's inefficiency hidden by the electricity supply company. Overall efficiency from the fuel used to generate through to moving the car is not as high as anything quoted. Renewables do not provide energy-input-free-fuel. The inputs used in constructing the generators have to be included.