Conservative party/opposition watch

raspberry-blower · Post by **raspberry-blower** » 01 Jul 2016, 16:53

UndercoverElephant wrote:
And as for the picture...Gove looks like a Harry Enfield character.

He doesn't just look like a Harry Enfield creation this lends credence he actually IS one

3rdRock · Post by **3rdRock** » 05 Jul 2016, 06:15

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... back-state

Disaster capitalism: the shocking doctrine Tories can’t wait to unleash

The Tory right doesn’t care about the damage Brexit will do. The prize is a free hand to exploit this mess and roll back the state for good.

As Naomi Klein argued in The Shock Doctrine, disaster capitalism operates by delivering massive shocks to the system and then using the ensuing period of anarchy, fear and confusion to reassemble the pieces of what it has broken into a new configuration. This is what was done in the aftermath of the financial crisis, and it is ultimately what is at stake in Brexit. The right wing of the Tory party has succeeded in throwing the UK’s affairs into complete confusion. The losses may be enormous: the preservation of the United Kingdom in its present form is far from certain. The winnings may, at first sight, seem modest: £350m a week will not be available to save the NHS; the free movement of labour will have to be conceded; and Britain will lose its place at the EU negotiating table. But the potential winnings for ruthless politicians are nevertheless enormous: the prize is the opportunity to rework an almost infinite range of detailed arrangements both inside and outside the UK, to redraw at breakneck speed the legal framework that will govern all aspects of our lives.

“If you break it, you own it” is an adage in the United States (propagated by a country-wide pottery retail chain). The right wing of the Tory party has broken Britain’s relationship with the entire world. Its objective now is to own the process of reconstructing that relationship.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 05 Jul 2016, 06:28

The Tories have been laying waste to the UK's commonly owned assets since they gained full power last year. Membership of the EU has little to do with it either way. Except, insofar as being out of it, any Left government, if voted into power, now has the full sovereign right to undo any damage that has been inflicted by the Right.

Or are you just another spineless anti-democrat who would rather we lived under a good king than a bad parliament? Which, apart from being spineless, is also short sighted because, whilst bad parliaments can be democratically removed, bad kings cannot.

3rdRock · Post by **3rdRock** » 05 Jul 2016, 07:44

Little John wrote:.... any Left government, if voted into power, now has the full sovereign right to undo any damage that has been inflicted by the Right.

Dream on Stevie. The Labour Party is done and dusted for the foreseeable and long term future as you well know and it'll be a miracle if it even survives as a single entity following the recent shenanigans.

We are moving into dangerous times. Right-wing, nationalistic parties are starting to dominate the political landscape throughout the West and Kline's predictions have never been more relevant.

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 05 Jul 2016, 07:51

3rdRock wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... back-state

This sort of nonsense makes a basic assumption that is wrong. The basic assumption is that there is some form of plan and people set out to achieve this sort of mess.

There is an element who wishes to roll back the state and they use all opportunities to argue this. They were quite unhappy with the 2010-2015 government because it didn't really roll back the state (in the historic sense of the proportion of GDP spent by the state).

3rdRock · Post by **3rdRock** » 05 Jul 2016, 07:58

As the author Stuart Aken once said:

Evil people rely on the acquiescence of naive good people to allow them to continue with their evil.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 05 Jul 2016, 08:26

3rdRock wrote:
Little John wrote:.... any Left government, if voted into power, now has the full sovereign right to undo any damage that has been inflicted by the Right.
Dream on Stevie. The Labour Party is done and dusted for the foreseeable and long term future as you well know and it'll be a miracle if it even survives as a single entity following the recent shenanigans.

We are moving into dangerous times. Right-wing, nationalistic parties are starting to dominate the political landscape throughout the West and Kline's predictions have never been more relevant.

Again, even assuming that is true, being members of the EU would not protect us. The Eu is operated by an unelected commission who, while the sun shone in the 80s, were largely heads of socially progressive nations. The sun is no longer shining and over time, they have morphed into right wing neo-con vassals of the Yanks at best and, at worst, are turning into seriously right wing neo-fascist nations whose edicts the UK is subject to. For good or for bad, the Uk is better off making it's own decisions. If the population of this country is naturally conservative with a small c and tends to vote in right of centre parties, then the Left and the Greens need to step up to the plate and convince them of a proper serious Left/Green alternative instead of hoping to ride on the protection of an EU aristocracy. Indeed, your last post: "...Evil people rely on the acquiescence of naive good people to allow them to continue with their evil...." pretty much sums of what I think of the Remain side's liberal wing of the referendum debate.

3rdRock · Post by **3rdRock** » 05 Jul 2016, 09:41

Little John wrote:
3rdRock wrote:
Little John wrote:.... any Left government, if voted into power, now has the full sovereign right to undo any damage that has been inflicted by the Right.
Dream on Stevie. The Labour Party is done and dusted for the foreseeable and long term future as you well know and it'll be a miracle if it even survives as a single entity following the recent shenanigans.

We are moving into dangerous times. Right-wing, nationalistic parties are starting to dominate the political landscape throughout the West and Kline's predictions have never been more relevant.
If the population of this country is naturally conservative with a small c and tends to vote in right of centre parties, then the Left and the Greens need to step up to the plate and convince them of a proper serious Left/Green alternative instead of hoping to ride on the protection of an EU aristocracy.

Couldn't agree more. The trouble is .... Murdoch and the right wing!

Through their manipulative use of the MSM, they has convinced:

1) The poor, left leaning sods at the bottom of the heap that their predicament is a direct result of immigration. 'Johnny Foreigner' is responsible for ALL of this country's problems. Not the reptilian billionaires like Green, not the banksters and not the corporations who won't be content until they own the proverbial crown jewels ..... but poor migrants. Divide and rule.

2) Many traditionally centre-left voters that Corbyn represents the devil incarnate and his views are no longer representative of a fair-minded population but the outpourings of a true communist. It doesn't matter that he is probably one of, if not the only politician currently showing any integrity in that vicious snake-pit which is the HoC. Divide and rule.

3) The majority of older, conservative voters who want to return to those halcyon times (if they ever existed) of spitfires and empire when everything was hunky dory, everyone had a job for life, house prices were on the up, interest on savings was buoyant and there were FEWER FOREIGNERS. Divide and rule.

Kline is right when she stated that ....

Around the world in Britain, the United States, Asia and the Middle East, there are people with power who are cashing in on chaos; exploiting bloodshed and catastrophe to brutally remake our world in their image. They are the shock doctors.

.... and Murdoch and his global associates have ensured that the world has already entered that 'perfect storm' where only the far-right are perceived to be in a position to offer salvation. Divide and rule.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 05 Jul 2016, 11:59

Both the Colonel Blimp right wingers and the ideologically bound Liberal-Left are living in cloud cuckoo land. Both of them are relying on a BAU model where industrial activity keeps on growing. And both will fail for the same reason.

Austerity is inevitable. A finite planet with a massively overshot human population ensures that. The only thing we get to choose is where we draw the line in terms of how it is shared out.

Endless additions to our populations are unsustainable. I would like to say here that the only thing we get to choose is where we draw the line in terms of when we have passed the point of sustainability. However, I can't because we have already long since passed that point. Reducing the population of this country (since that is the only part of the world over which we can exercise any degree of control) is going to be painful no matter what we do. But, we have to start somewhere instead of thinking endless growth can solve the problem or that it's all just too unpleasant to think about.

Reality does not negotiate 3rdRock.

All of which is why the Far-Right is rushing in to fill the reality gap left behind by all of the above. It is also is why anybody who is in the camp of one or more of the above, people such as you 3rd rock, who attempt to stifle all debate on this via the usual methods of tarring anyone on my side of that debate as closet (or overt) racists and fascists, are actually the main reason for the rise of said fascism. People like you and Biff Vernon are pushing a desperate proletariat into their open f***ing arms!

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 05 Jul 2016, 13:16

The far right won't say austerity is inevitable.

Automaton · Post by **Automaton** » 05 Jul 2016, 13:33

Little John wrote: The only thing we get to choose is where we draw the line in terms of how it is shared out.

If only, Little John, if only. But the rich will never let that happen.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 05 Jul 2016, 13:46

johnhemming2 wrote:The far right won't say austerity is inevitable.

No, of course, they wont. But, what they will do is provide a recognition of the real pain that is felt by the poor and further provide an easy to digest reason for it. Never mind that this is only one of the reasons and that endless (or as is now the case, jam forever tomorrow and never today) growth is not a solution. Indeed, some far right groups are even acknowledging that.

The Arch-druid is correct when he writes;

"....the enduring symbol of the current disconnect is the famous Hall of Mirrors at Versailles, where the last three French kings before the Revolution secluded themselves from an increasingly troubled and impoverished nation in order to gaze admiringly at their own resplendent reflections. While Marie Antoinette apparently never said the famous sentence attributed to her—“Let them eat cake”—the cluelessness about the realities of life outside the Hall of Mirrors that utterance suggests was certainly present as France stumbled toward ruin, and a growing number of ordinary Frenchmen and Frenchwomen turned their backs on their supposed leaders and went looking for new options....

....Outside the Hall of Mirrors, the sky is black with birds coming home to roost. Some of them have already settled on the rooftops of London. More of them are hovering above an assortment of European capitals, and many more are wheeling above the marble domes and pediments of Washington DC. When they land, their impact will shake the world. "

http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.co.uk/

3rdRock · Post by **3rdRock** » 05 Jul 2016, 19:41

Little John wrote: Austerity is inevitable. A finite planet with a massively overshot human population ensures that. The only thing we get to choose is where we draw the line in terms of how it is shared out.

An opinion, albeit lacking judgement.

Austerity is indeed inevitable but by your reckoning, 'Fortress GB' will be one of the first places the desperate come looking for sustenance when TS ultimately HTF.

Forget 'homeland security'. Better to share and share alike before we finally lose all sense of compassion and humanity. After all, what or who are you going to turn to when recoverable global resources are finally spent and the dispossessed have violently relieved you of your cache?

A grave new world beckons.

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 05 Jul 2016, 19:47

Little John wrote:
johnhemming2 wrote:The far right won't say austerity is inevitable.
No, of course, they wont. But, what they will do is provide a recognition of the real pain that is felt by the poor and further provide an easy to digest reason for it.

Indeed. The voices of the low paid have been ignored by people happy to be able to use a cheap and reliable Polish plumber.

3rdRock · Post by **3rdRock** » 05 Jul 2016, 20:09

johnhemming2 wrote:
Little John wrote:
johnhemming2 wrote:The far right won't say austerity is inevitable.
No, of course, they wont. But, what they will do is provide a recognition of the real pain that is felt by the poor and further provide an easy to digest reason for it.
Indeed. The voices of the low paid have been ignored by people happy to be able to use a cheap and reliable Polish plumber.

+1. It's the hypocrisy of some 'Brexiteers' that I can't abide.

Here's a couple of classic examples, oh, and BTW, they aren't anecdotal, I (unfortunately) happen to know these people.

1) A neighbour who couldn't wait for the opportunity to 'get rid of the scum coming from Europe' as he so eloquently put it, while, in the same month, having all of his windows and doors replaced professionally, on time and on budget by a company that exclusively employs a Polish workforce.

2) A local 'buy-to-let' landlord and bigoted racist of the first order who was more than happy to boast about the fact that he was extracting a disgustingly high rent from two immigrants who 'couldn't speak a ******* word of English'. He was smiling from ear to ear as he described their plight.