EU membership referendum debate thread

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 03 Jul 2016, 10:55

So The Guardian and the Independent are Main Stream Media, but The Sun, Sunday Times, Daily Express and Daily Mail are not.

Who are the Main Stream Media then?

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 03 Jul 2016, 11:12

There are two wings of the establishment that are at odds with each other right now and you know this well enough. So, enough with the disingenuous bollocks.

Post by **clv101** » 03 Jul 2016, 13:02

raspberry-blower wrote:The main problem here, though is not the attacks from Murdoch's empire but from The Guardian and Independent - two papers that have likely to have far more clout with Labour supporters in swaying their opinions.

Absolutely - The Guardian I hold in especially low regard these days. Their coverage of the Labour leadership contest, and ongoing has been hugely divisive and damaging to the left of politics in the UK.

If anyone doesn't follow Media Lens, they should. Their commentary hits the mark more often than not.
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3rdRock · Post by **3rdRock** » 04 Jul 2016, 08:17

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -investors

George Osborne is planning to cut corporation tax to below 15% in a bid to encourage businesses to invest in a Britain outside the European Union.

The chancellor said the move was part of a five-point plan to breathe life into the economy, following his warning before the referendum that a Brexit vote would trigger a DIY recession in the UK.

“We must focus on the horizon and the journey ahead and make the most of the hand we’ve been dealt,” Osborne told the Financial Times, adding that the UK faced a “very challenging time”.

The chancellor did not provide a specific timeframe for cutting corporation tax to below 15%, but said Britain should “get on with it”, to reassure investors that the UK is open for business.

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 04 Jul 2016, 13:03

https://www.theguardian.com/media/green ... ted-remain

Don't think this will amount to anything.

2 of the three MSM darlings of Brexit bow out, and the third looks unlikely to be elected PM.

Very quiet on this thread today.

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 04 Jul 2016, 13:11

There are leadership elections to happen in the Conservatives, Labour, Greens and UKIP. When that has finished it will be slightly clearer although Junker maybe sacked as well.

The most important thing to note in my view is that neither Cameron nor Osborne want to be directly responsible for dealing with the process from now on.

If anyone knows what is likely to happen it is them.

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 04 Jul 2016, 14:24

Whatever you think of the prospects or rationality or legality or morality of it happening, I am personally convinced that , given the current vacuum of policy and leadership on all political fronts, if the referendum was re-run tomorrow, fewer people would vote to leave than remain.

The longer this policy vacuum remains, the more Leave voters will feel abandoned. Neither of the main parties can present a unified position on Europe, neither wants a general election and neither has any idea how to negotiate an exit strategy , when to start talking, or even what the legality of leaving is, with or without a parliamentary vote, general election or invocation of article 50, or what the timetable will be.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 04 Jul 2016, 14:30

PS_RalphW wrote:Whatever you think of the prospects or rationality or legality or morality of it happening, I am personally convinced that , given the current vacuum of policy and leadership on all political fronts, if the referendum was re-run tomorrow, fewer people would vote to leave than remain.

The longer this policy vacuum remains, the more Leave voters will feel abandoned. Neither of the main parties can present a unified position on Europe, neither wants a general election and neither has any idea how to negotiate an exit strategy , when to start talking, or even what the legality of leaving is, with or without a parliamentary vote, general election or invocation of article 50, or what the timetable will be.

If you don't like democracy, you really should consider f***ing off and living in north Korea.

Your side of this referendum LOST.

Got it?

Blue Peter · Post by **Blue Peter** » 04 Jul 2016, 15:06

Little John wrote: If you don't like democracy, you really should consider ******* off and living in north Korea.

Your side of this referendum LOST.

Got it?

But the problem is that there is no positive plan about how to do Brexit. Given that we are very deeply entwined in the EU club, it is not easy to extract ourselves without doing great harm to the country - and as far as I can tell, no one campaigned for doing great harm to the country.

What if it isn't possible to safely extract ourselves?

Peter.

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 04 Jul 2016, 15:08

John,

Should the government call a general election?

Should the political parties stand on their exit strategies (if any) ?

When should the government invoke article 50?

Should the government have a commons vote before invoking article 50?

Should the government accelerate the 2 year negotiation or even call an immediate departure from the EU ?

Should the government draw a line in the sand on the free movement of labour, or limit immigration to a points system?

Should current migrant labour be allowed to remain indefinitely, or if they chose to return home should they be allowed back later?

How should we replace the CAP and fisheries policies?

Who would you like to be the leaders of the main parties?

Are you going to stand for election?

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 04 Jul 2016, 15:30

Blue Peter wrote:
Little John wrote: If you don't like democracy, you really should consider ******* off and living in north Korea.

Your side of this referendum LOST.

Got it?
But the problem is that there is no positive plan about how to do Brexit. Given that we are very deeply entwined in the EU club, it is not easy to extract ourselves without doing great harm to the country - and as far as I can tell, no one campaigned for doing great harm to the country.

What if it isn't possible to safely extract ourselves?

Peter.

What is "harm" in your opinion? Calling it "harm" is just a weasel word.

Blue Peter · Post by **Blue Peter** » 04 Jul 2016, 15:47

woodburner wrote:What is "harm" in your opinion? Calling it "harm" is just a weasel word.

Basically the economy will not perform as well as it would remaining in, principally due to less trade (what exactly will happen will depend upon how Brexit is done). This will translate into less public spending and higher taxes, which will tend to hit the poorest hardest.

And, because we are deeply entwined with Europe, to extract ourselves will take a great lot of work by government, which will accordingly not be working on other things,

Peter.

snow hope · Post by **snow hope** » 04 Jul 2016, 15:49

Blue Peter wrote:
Little John wrote: If you don't like democracy, you really should consider ******* off and living in north Korea.

Your side of this referendum LOST.

Got it?
But the problem is that there is no positive plan about how to do Brexit. Given that we are very deeply entwined in the EU club, it is not easy to extract ourselves without doing great harm to the country - and as far as I can tell, no one campaigned for doing great harm to the country.

What if it isn't possible to safely extract ourselves?

Peter.

If it isn't possible to safely extract ourselves, then what kind of institution did we join? All the more reason why we MUST leave! Feck.

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 04 Jul 2016, 15:57

PS_RalphW wrote:Who would you like to be the leaders of the main parties?

There are four parties with contests at the moment which is more than I have known at one stage before.

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 04 Jul 2016, 16:01

The news just keeps on coming

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-36707266