EU membership referendum debate thread

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 29 Jun 2016, 17:24

Money does not grow on trees. When you end up in power you have to deal with reality as it is rather than as you would wish it to be.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 29 Jun 2016, 18:00

Money does not grow on trees it is conjured into existence by the magic of the computer and double entry accounting by either the BOE or your local bank. About three per cent of the total, I am told, is actually printed or stamped as paper money and coin.

Did I hear correctly that the BOE has conjured another few hundred billions in the last few days for our *ankers benefit?

Tarrel · Post by **Tarrel** » 29 Jun 2016, 20:20

Well, doesn't time fly. A week ago we were getting ready to go to the polls. And a week, they say, is a long time in politics.

How did I vote? Wild horses wouldn't drag that information out of me (except for a few trusted people with whom, I hope, love and friendship transcends political leaning).

Do I regret the outcome? Yes, absolutely.

Do I empathise with those who voted Leave? Yes, absolutely.

Were we right to have the debate? Yes, absolutely.

Well, that's my tuppence worth anyway.

3rdRock · Post by **3rdRock** » 29 Jun 2016, 20:27

kenneal - lagger wrote:Money does not grow on trees it is conjured into existence by the magic of the computer and double entry accounting by either the BOE or your local bank. About three per cent of the total, I am told, is actually printed or stamped as paper money and coin.

Did I hear correctly that the BOE has conjured another few hundred billions in the last few days for our *ankers benefit?

Yes you did. £250 billion to be precise.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/bank-of-eng ... 1467214390

Bank of England Gov. Mark Carney will deliver a speech on Thursday, a week after Britons voted to leave the European Union, the central bank said Wednesday.

Mr. Carney stepped in to soothe financial markets Friday in the immediate aftermath of the shock Brexit vote, pledging the BOE would backstop the financial system with at least £250 billion ($334 billion) of loans to banks that needed them.

Lord Beria3 · Post by **Lord Beria3** » 29 Jun 2016, 20:28

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06 ... e-that-hi/

Boris Johnson and Michael Gove in particular should have announced by now, in proper detail, the basis on which they would like to begin to negotiate a mutually beneficial Brexit, perhaps based around a Norway-style model with significant extra powers over migration, as Liechtenstein already has. Let us hope that when he speaks on Thursday, Boris Johnson will outline least some elements of a mini-manifesto to kick-start the economy and ensure we bounce back quickly from the loss of activity caused by the present uncertainty. If you smash our politics, you become responsible for picking up the pieces; it’s not good enough to blame a lame-duck Prime Minister and a thoroughly discredited albeit still strangely defiant Chancellor for not doing more to calm the markets.

Good article on why the EU will have to agree some form of compromise otherwise their own economies will fall into recession and populist Eurosceptic parties will come to power.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 29 Jun 2016, 20:47

Footsie completely reversed its falls now and back up to May levels.

Sterling also now turning a corner. But, still lower than last week. Though, obviously good for exports.

News of lots of countries lining up to do trade deals with a post Brexit UK

http://heatst.com/uk/11-countries-geari ... h-britain/

The sky is not falling in

snow hope · Post by **snow hope** » 29 Jun 2016, 21:30

Little John wrote:Footsie completely reversed its falls now and back up to May levels.

Sterling also now turning a corner. But, still lower than last week. Though, obviously good for exports.

News of lots of countries lining up to do trade deals with a post Brexit UK

http://heatst.com/uk/11-countries-geari ... h-britain/

The sky is not falling in

Hear, hear.

Where is our Government with the plans to carry out the will of the people? They are completely failing the will of the people so far.

Other then trying to make us all think the sky is falling in!

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 29 Jun 2016, 21:39

Little John wrote: News of lots of countries lining up to do trade deals with a post Brexit UK

http://heatst.com/uk/11-countries-geari ... h-britain/

That's actually rather interesting. All this talk of Article 50 and pre-negotiations...there's nothing stopping the UK from negotiating with a load of non-EU countries before issuing the Article 50 notice, and if there's quite a few already in place - including for places the EU has no deal with? Then the UK starts the negotiations with the EU in not such a weak position. And in fact it actually might put severe pressure on the EU, because if it looks like the UK is actually doing pretty well in terms of trade deals outside the EU, leaving the EU suddenly looks more attractive to countries like Holland and Denmark. If I was Mr Juncker, I'd be worried.

Either way, it still makes no sense to do the Article 50 thing yet.

raspberry-blower · Post by **raspberry-blower** » 29 Jun 2016, 22:17

The idea of Scotland having another referendum for independence and rejoin the EU gets slapped down - by the EU

LBC: Sturgeon dealt blow over Scottish EU membership

3rdRock · Post by **3rdRock** » 29 Jun 2016, 22:25

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7q7LMh6CjE

Finally, a balanced, objective view of the pros & cons of Brexit!

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 30 Jun 2016, 07:30

There have been experiments in a number of countries by the government creating large amount of money (actually the amount of money - M0 is increaserd by government in any event).

Here are details of some of the examples
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 30 Jun 2016, 08:28

"Money creation" is a euphemism for "devaluation". It is merely a legal form of deception. If I have money to spare I will pay what I have to, to get what I want, if I am short of money I will haggle to get a lower price, and probably not buy. Haggling by everybody would result in there being less money in circulation, which then causes negative growth, which the system can't cope with.

Blue Peter · Post by **Blue Peter** » 30 Jun 2016, 10:07

That's actually rather interesting. All this talk of Article 50 and pre-negotiations...there's nothing stopping the UK from negotiating with a load of non-EU countries before issuing the Article 50 notice.[/quote]

Except, we don't have the staff anymore because we're part of the EU and we've become inextricably linked with it,

Peter.

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 30 Jun 2016, 10:40

It's not inextricable, it took more that 40 years to get to where we are, it will take decades to undo it all. People are just thinking short term.

Blue Peter · Post by **Blue Peter** » 30 Jun 2016, 12:41

woodburner wrote:It's not inextricable, it took more that 40 years to get to where we are, it will take decades to undo it all. People are just thinking short term.

Yes, it's not inextricable. But it's the sort of tied-in-ness which will take all the government's efforts for 10 years to produce something similar, but worse, than the current arrangements,

Peter.