EU membership referendum debate thread

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 28 Jun 2016, 11:12

Footsie now back above its low point of 13 June

Sterling also levelling out, at least for the moment

I guess the Council of ministers meeting today will dictate the market direction tomorrow

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 28 Jun 2016, 11:41

Unless they come out with "a solution" I would not expect any market impact from the European Council meeting. It does appear that the EEA option is gaining traction at the moment.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 28 Jun 2016, 15:02

UndercoverElephant wrote:
woodburner wrote:French and Dutch opposition parties now talking of referendums for EU exit

Read more..........
I doubt it is going to happen in France any time soon, but in Holland it seems like a very real possibility all of a sudden.

Geert Wilders, the head of the Dutch PVV party, said on Friday that the citizens of his country "would like to be in charge again of their own budget, their national borders and their immigration policy".

"I congratulate the British people for beating the political elite in both London and Brussels and I think we can do the same," Wilders told the Reuters news agency. "We should have a referendum about a 'Nexit' as soon as possible."

His party is leading opinion polls in the Netherlands - one of the six founder nations of what has become the EU.
If France leaves then the EU is toast. Fin.

A Dutch friend recently said that, if the right-wing party get in overall charge (which he thought unlikely but not impossible), then Holland will 'Hexit', which is his nicely ironic name for it. They could go for it anyway - many Dutch resent the burden of regulation.

3rdRock · Post by **3rdRock** » 28 Jun 2016, 17:23

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... rexit-vote

Siemens freezes new UK wind power investment following Brexit vote

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 28 Jun 2016, 17:51

And a good job too!

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 28 Jun 2016, 19:32

Watching the panic over the last few days it surprised me that so few had thought through the ramifications of leaving. The end of the world comments and the EU will stick it to the UK warnings seem over the top.
So the UK is no longer in. What does that make them? Why the equal to other countries like the USA or Mexico. So after the breakup the import /export tariffs should be no higher then these countries are paying. Just how high are they anyway? I poked around a bit and simple it is not.
Seems every product from every country has its own code number and rate and they split it down to the specific job the machine is intended to do (such as laying track) or how much sugar is in a food product.
You defiantly need fewer bureaucrats and regulators!!
Here is a good read I found on auto imports and exports.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/fr ... ea-feature
And here is some officialdom from the EU.
http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/cu ... dex_en.htm

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 28 Jun 2016, 20:09

The EU will not agree a deal that encourages other countries to leave the EU.

So the UK is no longer in. What does that make them?

The UK is still "in" and is going to be so until either 2 years have elapsed since Art 50 notice is given or a deal is done.

That's why we must not give notice until we have some idea of what deals can be done.

Post by **mikepepler** » 28 Jun 2016, 20:47

I've seen people posting this on facebook, and saying they've written to their MP: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... act-europe

I can't quite believe that MPs would date vote against the referendum, but I imagine a large number of people would march on Westminster if they did.

Also, I get the impression the EU wants us to get out now anyway....

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 28 Jun 2016, 21:10

johnhemming2 wrote:The EU will not agree a deal that encourages other countries to leave the EU.

So the UK is no longer in. What does that make them?
The UK is still "in" and is going to be so until either 2 years have elapsed since Art 50 notice is given or a deal is done.

That's why we must not give notice until we have some idea of what deals can be done.

I suppose that is fine as long as you close the border now and don't have two years of immigrants stuffing themselves in before the deadline.
But I was considering your final position not the status day to day during the transition.

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 28 Jun 2016, 21:54

The other members of the EU are saying that there will not be free trade unless there is free movement of labour. The largest single factor in the Brexit vote was opposition to increased immigration, so there is a major impass already.

I heard a senior member of the civil service almost purr with pleasure at the prospect of at least a decade of re-writing all the EU rules and regulations that we are throwing away, and will undoubtedly be replaced with even more tortuous home grown ones.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 28 Jun 2016, 22:03

PS_RalphW wrote:The other members of the EU are saying that there will not be free trade unless there is free movement of labour. The largest single factor in the Brexit vote was opposition to increased immigration, so there is a major impass already.

I heard a senior member of the civil service almost purr with pleasure at the prospect of at least a decade of re-writing all the EU rules and regulations that we are throwing away, and will undoubtedly be replaced with even more tortuous home grown ones.

Watch them cut and paste volumes of it to be "compliant with export rules" and charge you an arm and a leg for the "essential " work they have done.

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 28 Jun 2016, 22:45

The re-referendum petition has passed 4,000,000 votes.

3rdRock · Post by **3rdRock** » 28 Jun 2016, 23:12

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... mmigration

David Cameron warned Europe’s leaders that they will have to offer the UK more control over immigration at the end of a fractious day where politicians across Europe clashed over the meaning and consequences of last week’s Brexit vote.

The British prime minster used his last Brussels summit to tell Angela Merkel, François Hollande and other European heads of government that anxieties about unrestricted freedom of movement were at the heart of the decision by Britons to reject the EU.

'Vielen Dank für das Dave. Jetzt verpissen!'

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 28 Jun 2016, 23:24

PS_RalphW wrote:The re-referendum petition has passed 4,000,000 votes.

Who gives a shit?

snow hope · Post by **snow hope** » 28 Jun 2016, 23:31

I am sick of the scare-mongering going on by the media and eagerly egged on by the politicians and establishment here and abroad.

The FTSE100 climbed back up another 2.6% today and is at 6140, the level it was at for most of May and higher than the third week of June - ie. nothing at all out of the ordinary from the markets perspective.

So the £ is down against the USD by 10 cents from where it was on the 14th June - ie down about 9%. And the Euro is down about 6 cent from the 14th June at € 1.20 - again no more than would be expected really.

The MSM is stoking it all up including ITV and BBC! The Tories said they had planned for all eventualities - hmmm - well they don't seem to know what to do about planning for Brexit do they?

OR do they? Maybe this was all planned and the plan was to do bugger all if Brexit was the public decision and if so wait for the public to be so scared that when they eventually are "persuaded by the public" to have a second vote, there is no doubt what the scared Leavers do and a significant proportion change their mind and we get a vote to Remain! Just my musings of what I get a gut feeling is really going on.

As for Corbyn, if he cant take a hint and do the decent thing when his party vote on mass for change, then he is going to split the party and he will be hated by more and more people. He is no leader unfortunately and at this stage of the proceedings all political parties need a good leader. End of.

You would think the country is falling apart according to the media. I even had my mother on the phone to me tonight saying we have the biggest crisis since the second World war! I had to calm her down and gently explain how she was falling for the media and political scare-mongering. Which to be fair to her she did see and understand when I explained it to her.

No wonder it seems such a mess - that is what lots of politicians and establishment want, now that we have had the balls to vote Leave from the corrupt and elitist EU.

I hope the country doesn't get manipulated out of the right and heroic vote that they made.