EU membership referendum debate thread

AutomaticEarth · Post by **AutomaticEarth** » 25 Jun 2016, 19:23

clv101 wrote:
3rdRock wrote:Wake up! What are you waiting for? Sign the petition. Now!

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
2330 per minute over the last 5 minutes, it'll be over 2.5 million by the end of today.

So? We have another referendum, Brexit gets 60% of the vote, and Remain ask for yet another referendum. And so it goes on........

Post by **clv101** » 25 Jun 2016, 19:26

I agree the petition is silly - but it's an interesting view of the scale of unhappiness with the result. There was nothing similar after the 2015 general election.

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 25 Jun 2016, 19:42

clv101 wrote:It is an odd situation we find ourselves in. The vast majority of 'the establishment', the power, the money, the corporations etc. are unhappy with the result. I'm not even sure Boris and Gove are that happy with the result - doubt they expected to win, they probably just saw it as a vehicle to increase their stature.

This article from a foreign policy guy at the LSE raises some interesting questions:
The Brexit debate is far from over: there will have to be a further vote
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexitvote/2016/ ... ther-vote/

One of the few well-informed articles about the situation.

The EEA has a number of freedoms one of which is freedom of movement.

In my view freedom of movement does not require automatic qualification for subsidy.

3rdRock · Post by **3rdRock** » 25 Jun 2016, 19:49

What you seem to forget is that the government is not duty bound to adhere to a referendum. They could take the final decision back to the MP's in the HoC. It would be hard for them to ignore 2.2M+ (and counting) registered objections.

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 25 Jun 2016, 19:57

clv101 wrote:
3rdRock wrote:Wake up! What are you waiting for? Sign the petition. Now!

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
2330 per minute over the last 5 minutes, it'll be over 2.5 million by the end of today.

So what? The rules for the referendum were set out before it took place, and a simple majority of those that voted would carry the decision. Now because some didn't get their way they are acting like spoilt children and demanding it's done again. FFS grow up, those involved! The option was to stay in and have no chance of control over those coming into the UK via the EU. That is not what most people wanted, as the population is already unsustainable, but never mind, lets bury our heads and pretend permanent population increase and permanent economic growth are possible. So whoever finishes up forming the government better understand this, because if they do as has been said over the last few days, that it won't make any differenct to immigration, or to the fees the UK pays for access to the markets or to any other control input from Brussels (or Strasbourg if happens to be their turn) which was causing problems, then they will find life at the top very difficult.

3rdRock · Post by **3rdRock** » 25 Jun 2016, 20:02

woodburner wrote:
clv101 wrote:
3rdRock wrote:Wake up! What are you waiting for? Sign the petition. Now!

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
2330 per minute over the last 5 minutes, it'll be over 2.5 million by the end of today.

So what? The rules for the referendum were set out before it took place, and a simple majority of those that voted would carry the decision. Now because some didn't get their way they are acting like spoilt children and demanding it's done again. FFS grow up, those involved! The option was to stay in and have no chance of control over those coming into the UK via the EU. That is not what most people wanted, as the population is already unsustainable, but never mind, lets bury our heads and pretend permanent population increase and permanent economic growth are possible. So whoever finishes up forming the government better understand this, because if they do as has been said over the last few days, that it won't make any differenct to immigration, or to the fees the UK pays for access to the markets or to any other control input from Brussels (or Strasbourg if happens to be their turn) which was causing problems, then they will find life at the top very difficult.

Rubbish!

“The referendum was an advisory, non-binding referendum. The leave campaign’s platform has already unravelled and some people wish they hadn’t voted to leave. Parliament now needs to decide whether we should go forward with Brexit and there should be a vote in parliament next week.

“Let us not destroy our economy on the basis of lies and the hubris of Boris Johnson.”

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ns-website

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 25 Jun 2016, 20:04

johnhemming2 wrote:
clv101 wrote:It is an odd situation we find ourselves in. The vast majority of 'the establishment', the power, the money, the corporations etc. are unhappy with the result. I'm not even sure Boris and Gove are that happy with the result - doubt they expected to win, they probably just saw it as a vehicle to increase their stature.

This article from a foreign policy guy at the LSE raises some interesting questions:
The Brexit debate is far from over: there will have to be a further vote
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexitvote/2016/ ... ther-vote/
One of the few well-informed articles about the situation.

The EEA has a number of freedoms one of which is freedom of movement.

In my view freedom of movement does not require automatic qualification for subsidy.

I think Dr James Strong might find that export trade with the USA is greater than that with the EU.

Post by **clv101** » 25 Jun 2016, 20:05

woodburner wrote:
clv101 wrote:
3rdRock wrote:Wake up! What are you waiting for? Sign the petition. Now!

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
2330 per minute over the last 5 minutes, it'll be over 2.5 million by the end of today.

So what? The rules for the referendum were set out before it took place, and a simple majority of those that voted would carry the decision.

\
Of course, that goes without saying. It's silly. However I think it's an interesting, quantitative indication of the level of unhappiness with the result. We've never seen a petition gather anything like this many signatures, let alone at this rate before.

Lord Beria3 · Post by **Lord Beria3** » 25 Jun 2016, 20:09

The people signing that petition are muppets who don't understand democracy.

The last thing the average voter wants is another referendum. In the extremely unlikely event it happened, Leave would get 60% of the vote.

Post by **clv101** » 25 Jun 2016, 20:11

woodburner wrote:
johnhemming2 wrote:
clv101 wrote:It is an odd situation we find ourselves in. The vast majority of 'the establishment', the power, the money, the corporations etc. are unhappy with the result. I'm not even sure Boris and Gove are that happy with the result - doubt they expected to win, they probably just saw it as a vehicle to increase their stature.

This article from a foreign policy guy at the LSE raises some interesting questions:
The Brexit debate is far from over: there will have to be a further vote
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexitvote/2016/ ... ther-vote/
One of the few well-informed articles about the situation.

The EEA has a number of freedoms one of which is freedom of movement.

In my view freedom of movement does not require automatic qualification for subsidy.
I think Dr James Strong might find that export trade with the USA is greater than that with the EU.

No, that's not at all right. In 2015 we exported £15.1bn to USA, compared with well over £30bn to EU (£10.5bn Germany, £6.3bn France, £6.0bn Netherlands, £5.1bn Ireland etc...)

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 25 Jun 2016, 20:12

3rdRock wrote:
PS_RalphW wrote:Government petition site has a petition to re-run the referendum on the (spurious) grounds that the result was too narrow to be decisive.

It has 1.85 Million signatures in just 1 day - more than double previous record and at one point the site crashed due to demand.

48% of the population are really pissed off.
In May, Nigel Farage, reptile that he is, insisted that if the result favoured remaining in the EU by a 52 to 48% margin, he would consider it to be 'unfinished business' and demand a second referendum.

I wonder if he still feels the same?

Wake up! What are you waiting for? Sign the petition. Now!

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

There is no need for you, (who appears to be one of the disgruntled remain voters), to make such childish remarks about someone you disagree with. Makes your argument worthless. Maybe you think perpetual growth is realistic, if so you will be disappointed.

3rdRock · Post by **3rdRock** » 25 Jun 2016, 20:21

woodburner wrote:
3rdRock wrote:
PS_RalphW wrote:Government petition site has a petition to re-run the referendum on the (spurious) grounds that the result was too narrow to be decisive.

It has 1.85 Million signatures in just 1 day - more than double previous record and at one point the site crashed due to demand.

48% of the population are really pissed off.
In May, Nigel Farage, reptile that he is, insisted that if the result favoured remaining in the EU by a 52 to 48% margin, he would consider it to be 'unfinished business' and demand a second referendum.

I wonder if he still feels the same?

Wake up! What are you waiting for? Sign the petition. Now!

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
There is no need for you, (who appears to be one of the disgruntled remain voters), to make such childish remarks about someone you disagree with. Makes your argument worthless. Maybe you think perpetual growth is realistic, if so you will be disappointed.

Every 'promise' that was heralded by the 'Brexit Brigade' appears to be unravelling in front of our eyes - and all within the space of one day.

Nigel Farage - an honest broker? I don't think so! A lying reptile along with the rest of his xenophobic, right-wing elitist UKIP and Tory chums who appear to have already gone to ground.

3rdRock · Post by **3rdRock** » 25 Jun 2016, 20:35

Lord Beria3 wrote:The people signing that petition are muppets who don't understand democracy.

The last thing the average voter wants is another referendum. In the extremely unlikely event it happened, Leave would get 60% of the vote.

You have the audacity to call this democracy?

A country where the corporate, right wing controlled media have managed to convince the ill-educated and terminally bewildered that all of our country's ills should be laid at the feet of the EU, people on benefits and migrants?

The banksters and our old school elite who are truly responsible for this shit-storm have triumphed yet again. Goebbels would be SO proud of their propagandist methods.

Divide and rule folks - it works every time.

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 25 Jun 2016, 20:36

Just because there are fewer reports in MSM doesen't make your assertion of having gone to ground, valid.

What about the remain promises? emergency budget, hundreds of thousands of jobs lost on the day after (Friday), etc.

If MPs tried to reject the referendum vote, there may be a lot of them needing to find another job come the next election, and that could happen very soon.

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 25 Jun 2016, 20:38

3rdRock wrote:
Lord Beria3 wrote:The people signing that petition are muppets who don't understand democracy.

The last thing the average voter wants is another referendum. In the extremely unlikely event it happened, Leave would get 60% of the vote.
You have the audacity to call this democracy?

A country where the corporate, right wing controlled media have managed to convince the ill-educated and terminally bewildered that all of our country's ills should be laid at the feet of the EU, people on benefits and migrants?

The banksters and our old school elite who are truly responsible for this shit-storm have triumphed yet again. Goebbels would be SO proud of their propagandist methods.

Divide and rule folks - it works every time.

There, there, try and keep calm, you will feel better in a week or two.