EU membership referendum debate thread

fuzzy · Post by **fuzzy** » 24 Jun 2016, 08:21

kenneal - lagger wrote:28% of the vote aren't bothered about being in or out. If they were they should have voted. There wasn't any question of whether a vote was worth anything in this election so if you didn't vote it was because you didn't care. As far as England and Wales are concerned it was more decisive. Scotland and Northern Ireland were always going to vote in and have their own agenda. It was a referendum to ask what the British population wanted to do and they have given their verdict so it is a mandate.

As far as the environment goes, if labour doesn't take note of what much of its vote have said they will lose that vote to UKIP so UKIP and the much hated Tories might just be able to form a government in four years time at the next election.

If Labour does take note of the way that its supporters voted and addresses immigration and their other worries they, along with the Welsh and Scots Nationalists could form a government and undo anything the current government does to the environment and working conditions.

You might find a lot of don't votes were couples. I was committed to leave, my wife was really conflicted and is wary of change. Since she wanted to vote the other way I said let's not bother, it's timewasting. She hated the idea [not a mathematician] so I said fine you vote in and accept our fate. She didn't vote so I did..some how we get along.

Post by **clv101** » 24 Jun 2016, 08:24

Well, Cameron's planning to stick around for 3 months. New PM in post by conference in October.

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 24 Jun 2016, 08:32

kenneal - lagger wrote:Saying the 28% who didn't vote don't care/couldn't be bothered is not at all divisive or triumphant. It's a statement of fact!

28% did not vote is fact. Why they did not vote is a matter of opinion, since you didn't care/couldn't be bothered to ask them.

The result is a direct instruction to the government to leave the EU forthwith.

"Forthwith" was never a possibility, the disconnection will take some years.

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 24 Jun 2016, 08:37

clv101 wrote:Well, Cameron's planning to stick around for 3 months. New PM in post by conference in October.

Michael Gove, Owen Patterson, IDS? OMG

What have we wished for?

Post by **clv101** » 24 Jun 2016, 08:41

Taking a step back, it's quite incredible just how much of a cockup, on behalf of the establishment, this is. A little more than a year after Cameron's unexpected Conservative majority, he's resining. A trap of his own making.

AutomaticEarth · Post by **AutomaticEarth** » 24 Jun 2016, 08:43

clv101 wrote:https://www.google.co.uk/#q=ftse
FTSE 100 down 8.2% in opening minutes.

https://www.google.co.uk/#q=ftse+250
250 down 12%!

Bookie also got it wrong. One of my friends bet £40 so he'll be happy this morning.

raspberry-blower · Post by **raspberry-blower** » 24 Jun 2016, 08:49

clv101 wrote:Taking a step back, it's quite incredible just how much of a cockup, on behalf of the establishment, this is. A little more than a year after Cameron's unexpected Conservative majority, he's resining. A trap of his own making.

Or was this the trigger that "caused" a market crash?
It's all a bubble economy now - this vote will only shatter that illusion.

One of the biggest losers in this referendum is, oddly enough, Japan. Which deserves another thread of its own..

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 24 Jun 2016, 08:59

raspberry-blower wrote:...........

One of the biggest losers in this referendum is, oddly enough, Japan. Which deserves another thread of its own..

???

AutomaticEarth · Post by **AutomaticEarth** » 24 Jun 2016, 09:03

clv101 wrote:Taking a step back, it's quite incredible just how much of a cockup, on behalf of the establishment, this is. A little more than a year after Cameron's unexpected Conservative majority, he's resining. A trap of his own making.

TBH he probably wanted to go in any case. At least he can say 'not on my watch' if/when things go bad.

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 24 Jun 2016, 09:06

I thought he was lined up for EU commissioner, which is why he was going to step down before the next election.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 24 Jun 2016, 09:25

clv101 wrote:https://www.google.co.uk/#q=ftse
FTSE 100 down 8.2% in opening minutes.

https://www.google.co.uk/#q=ftse+250
250 down 12%!

The Economy today is the same economy it was yesterday.

So, either the Leave victory has exposed a weakness that was already there and would have expressed it self sooner or later. Or, today's fluctuations in the market are based on headless chickens chasing a short term profit.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 24 Jun 2016, 09:26

raspberry-blower wrote:...It's all a bubble economy now - this vote will only shatter that illusion....

Precisely

raspberry-blower · Post by **raspberry-blower** » 24 Jun 2016, 09:49

kenneal - lagger wrote:
raspberry-blower wrote:...........

One of the biggest losers in this referendum is, oddly enough, Japan. Which deserves another thread of its own..
???

Japan has been engaging in "Abenomics" another brain dead form of Neoliberalism concocted by brain dead economists.
Japan has had zombie banks that have been bailed out and a zero rate interest policy for over two decades now? Sound familiar?
The Japanese Yen has been used as a "Carry Trade" because of its low/non interest rate policy would make it an attractive option to then buy bonds in different currencies: What is a Carry Trade?

The problem here is that in order for this to work - with other currencies hovering around a similar level - is that Japan would need its currency to depreciate. IT'S DOING THE EXACT OPPOSITE.

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 24 Jun 2016, 09:51

So Cameron's resigned, bad move IMO. Reacting in this way is not helpful even if some might wish it.

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 24 Jun 2016, 10:13

He knows he cannot negotiate a better deal. The tories need to elect someone who campaigned for brexit who will appoint someone who campaigned for brexit as chancellor. Then when they reveal the cuts and the fact that they have not got a better deal no-one will be able to say that is because they wished to prove the Brexit camp wrong.

Remember that the big negotiation is with the EU.