EU membership referendum debate thread

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 12 Jun 2016, 17:56

biffvernon wrote: the Brexit leaders are all climate change deniers.

I don't think they all are, but it is definitely a tendency. Hence they don't value having a trade agreement which also takes into account environmental issues. (or indeed working conditions).

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 12 Jun 2016, 17:59

biffvernon wrote:
What we really want to do is bring population growth to an end by voluntary means, maintaining everyone's health and welfare, and bring greenhouse gas emissions to an end by not crashing the economy but rather decoupling economic growth from pollution and resource depletion.

If the population stays as it is now, it won't be possible to maintain everyones health and welfare, just as it isn't now. Have you thought of visiting planet Earth? It might be a surprise for you.

How do you propose your decoupling will work (even if you understand it to be possible, because I certainly haven't got a clue what you mean).

Anyway, I don't suppose climate change will cause people to vote Brexit - the Brexit leaders are all climate change deniers.

The option is not available to vote "Brexit". The two options available are to vote "Remain", or vote "Leave".

oobers · Post by **oobers** » 12 Jun 2016, 18:07

clv101 wrote:A vote for leave will do one of three things to future CO2 emissions compared to where they would be had we remained; be higher, lower, or exactly the same. We can rule out exactly the same leaving two options. It's my opinion that they will be lower in event of a leave vote. That's all I'm saying.

Don't you think there will be a dash for coal as the Brexit government would be unencumbered by EU directives?

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 12 Jun 2016, 18:26

I am expecting Brexit to result in the EEA which won't change that much although we will have less power.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 12 Jun 2016, 19:10

Right, enough with the f***ing "Brexit". This is a term deliberately coined and promoted by the Remain camp's propaganda machine, otherwise known as the MSM. It has been coined in order to trivialise and diminish the Leave campaign. We don't see "Bremain" being used as a term to describe the Remain campaign so we should not be seeing "Brexit" being used for the Leave campaign.

Snail · Post by **Snail** » 12 Jun 2016, 19:36

Snail wrote:
I suggest you read his book:
https://yanisvaroufakis.eu/books/and-th ... they-must/
Maybe I will.

Just read it and it has convinced me to vote leave.

We need to get out now before it's too late. Varoufakis is scathing about the EU; its history, present, and the probable future. All he has is a faint hope that the European elite will stop playing politics for personal gain and start getting smart. Otherwise the EU, of which he says is ideally suited for this, will continue to tread along the path of becoming an undemocratic dictatorship.

Thank god we're not in the euro.

Snail · Post by **Snail** » 12 Jun 2016, 19:40

And either the EU will get its act together. Or not. Or break up.

I've seen no evidence that the UK, in or out, will make a blind bit of difference. And plenty concerning Germany's foolish intransigence.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 12 Jun 2016, 19:48

johnhemming2 wrote:
biffvernon wrote: the Brexit leaders are all climate change deniers.
I don't think they all are, but it is definitely a tendency. Hence they don't value having a trade agreement which also takes into account environmental issues. (or indeed working conditions).

Maybe they aren't all but I guess that's a matter of how far you cast the net for 'leader'. Farage, Johnson, Gove, Lawson ... tell me which Brexit leaders are concerned about global warming There are people like Gisela Stuart who have not actually rubbished the idea of global warming - she has just ignored the issue while promoting things like airport expansion. That's denial in my book.

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 12 Jun 2016, 19:53

Ordered the book.

Meanwhile the MEP's (except UKIP) will implore us to vote remain so they can continue their overpaid existence, existence in an organisation which as yet has still not had any of its accounts approved by auditors. I wonder why.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 12 Jun 2016, 20:38

My guess is because such audited accounts would be likely to show a clear pattern of financial resource allocation based on the political objective of further EU integration and supra-national domination of national parliaments as opposed to allocation of those resource based on formally and publicly agreed economic criteria.

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 12 Jun 2016, 21:00

biffvernon wrote:
johnhemming2 wrote:
biffvernon wrote: the Brexit leaders are all climate change deniers.
I don't think they all are, but it is definitely a tendency. Hence they don't value having a trade agreement which also takes into account environmental issues. (or indeed working conditions).
Maybe they aren't all but I guess that's a matter of how far you cast the net for 'leader'. Farage, Johnson, Gove, Lawson ... tell me which Brexit leaders are concerned about global warming There are people like Gisela Stuart who have not actually rubbished the idea of global warming - she has just ignored the issue while promoting things like airport expansion. That's denial in my book.

Probably george galloway.

AutomaticEarth · Post by **AutomaticEarth** » 12 Jun 2016, 21:12

biffvernon wrote:
johnhemming2 wrote:
biffvernon wrote: the Brexit leaders are all climate change deniers.
I don't think they all are, but it is definitely a tendency. Hence they don't value having a trade agreement which also takes into account environmental issues. (or indeed working conditions).
Maybe they aren't all but I guess that's a matter of how far you cast the net for 'leader'. Farage, Johnson, Gove, Lawson ... tell me which Brexit leaders are concerned about global warming There are people like Gisela Stuart who have not actually rubbished the idea of global warming - she has just ignored the issue while promoting things like airport expansion. That's denial in my book.

Most Brexit leaders have more pressing issues than worrying about AGW. I'm not saying that's a good thing, but, like most sane people, they have probably been briefed that whatever they do is unlikely to have much affect on future trends in the short term.

Hopefully they are, or will be, concentrating on more practical issues like preventing mass uncontrolled immigration.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 12 Jun 2016, 22:07

johnhemming2 wrote: Probably george galloway.

Oh yes, that's true. He's certainly tackled the deniers from time to time. Mind you, we haven't heard much from him, have we?

AutomaticEarth · Post by **AutomaticEarth** » 12 Jun 2016, 22:22

biffvernon wrote:
johnhemming2 wrote: Probably george galloway.
Oh yes, that's true. He's certainly tackled the deniers from time to time. Mind you, we haven't heard much from him, have we?

He's on RT quite a lot on his own Sputnik show. I've never had much time for Galloway, but when he backed the Leave campaign, he did go up in my estimation slightly.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 12 Jun 2016, 22:58

Little John wrote:Right, enough with the ******* "Brexit". This is a term deliberately coined and promoted by the Remain camp's propaganda machine, otherwise known as the MSM. It has been coined in order to trivialise and diminish the Leave campaign. We don't see "Bremain" being used as a term to describe the Remain campaign so we should not be seeing "Brexit" being used for the Leave campaign.

Don't agree. It's just short-hand, like "Grexit". It's not negative in anyway.

Contrast with "Dawkinsian" - a term intentionally invented to sound like "Dickensian", and not in a good way.