What can we do to change the minds of decision makers and people in general to actually do something about preparing for the forthcoming economic/energy crises (the ones after this one!)?
woodburner wrote:Isn't it the case that there are already a large number of jobs taken by eastern Europeans? There may be reasons why, such as harder working, lower pay, but there are also quite a few pick-pocket gangs that the UK is powerless to prevent coming.
Terry Leahy, I think presided over a time of tax avoidance and mis-reporting profits, (or have I got it wrong?) and made loads-a-munny.
Ian Cheshire's corner shop sells huge amounts of glyphosate weed killer and neonicotineoid insecticide, and made loads-a-munny.
So that's alright then.
I'm not saying anything is alright in any case. I was just posting a link to say that our shopping overmasters are telling us to to stay in the EU.
Myself, I use no weedkiller on my garden, as I don't need to. Weed-killers are implicated in the cause of a number of cancers, so it's probably a good idea not to use them.
I was just making a general point, not intending to take you to task.
Just watching Countryfile. An article about the living wage courtesy our great Chancellor Osbourne. The margins are so tight in the veg growing industry that the recent increase will mean insolvency for one firm in four years. Well done George, either the firm will move to eastern Europe and jobs will be lost in the UK, or they will have to mechanise, and so lose jobs.
Osbourne has set this up, if we leave the EU, jobs will be lost and he can claim it was leaving that did it. If we remain, jobs will be lost and he will blame it on something, but won't take the responsibility for his backfiring scheme.
To become an extremist, hang around with people you agree with. Cass Sunstein
woodburner wrote:I was just making a general point, not intending to take you to task.
I know WB, no offence, I was going to modify my post but you beat to a response
Yeah I'm not too sure about the living wage increase either. Granted, it gives a bit more to those in low-paid jobs, but ends up making us less competitive.
Agree with your thoughts on Osbourne; whatever way things go, he's likely to be able to slope this from his shoulders onto someone else.
woodburner wrote:I was just making a general point, not intending to take you to task.
I know WB, no offence, I was going to modify my post but you beat to a response
Yeah I'm not too sure about the living wage increase either. Granted, it gives a bit more to those in low-paid jobs, but ends up making us less competitive.
Agree with your thoughts on Osbourne; whatever way things go, he's likely to be able to slope this from his shoulders onto someone else.
The problem is not the size of the living wage. That is a symptom of the problem. The problem is the cost of living. The primary component of which is the cost of putting a roof over one's head. As ever, our problems stem from a massive debt overhang in the real estate sector since that then raises the price of many things (rents, for example) in order to service the debt, whilst simultaneously suppressing the price of other things to compensate (food, for example). Until that nettle is grasped, everything else amounts to no more than papering over the problem.
Last edited by Little John on 23 May 2016, 09:45, edited 1 time in total.
That nettle will never be grasped by Osbourne as keeping the price of housing up is his only crutch to prop up the ficticious economy. with £billions coming in from foreigners buying properties in London, it is skewing all the figures.
To become an extremist, hang around with people you agree with. Cass Sunstein
Little John wrote:The most primary component of which is the cost of putting a roof over one's head. As ever, our problems stem from a massive debt overhang in the real estate sector since that then raises the price of many things (rents, for example) in order to service the debt, whilst simultaneously suppressing the price of other things to compensate (food, for example). Until that nettle is grasped, everything else amounts to no more than papering over the problem.
True. It's possible to live quite cheaply once the mortgage is gone, although we still pay taxes to fund means-based-benefits that are necessary for other people to pay their mortgages, so there is no escaping the bank-subsidy system completely.
A case of saying anything to get your vote - while conveniently forgetting that he is a "product" of the same self serving political system.
Indeed, this is one of the factors which has made the EU Referendum such a tough call for so many. It feels like this referendum is more about a dust up between the old school tie brigade, than it is about the future of our country, and the European Union
There should be a reasoned, rational debate from both sides about the pros and cons of Brexit. Yet all I seem to hear is bollocks and Bulshit
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools - Douglas Adams.
The campaigning on both sides is entirely negative and deeply alarmist, verging on outright lies.
What we are watching is a neoliberal rebellion from the Tory right who find the existing neoliberal control of the major EU policies not to their liking because they are not sufficiently corrupt toward their own personal agendas and financial interests.
It is the rich falling out over the spoils, and the good (and bad) of the EU is getting trampled in the dust as a result.
And the last couple of responses about this are also entirely planned by our dear leaders. If your opinions cannot be swayed with propaganda, you are encouraged to think it's all bollocks and so become apathetic.
We all need to use our brains, focus on the real arguments and ignore the noise. There is a real decision that really needs to be made by all of us.
OK...the last thing I am going to do is defend lying, manipulative politicians, but in this particular case it is not surprising that all we are being fed is somewhere between highly speculative and completely fabricated nonsense. The reason is that nobody actually knows what is going to happen after a Brexit. This wasn't supposed to happen. Member states were never supposed to leave the EU. The contingency plans for a country leaving the EU were never written into the treaties, because the people who negotiated those treaties always assumed that joining the EU was a one-way ticket to being part of an eventual European superstate.
So that is why it's all bollocks. All the figures given by both sides about what is going to happen in the case of a Brexit aren't worth taking any notice of, and they can't be replaced with non-bollocks because nobody can predict what is going to happen in a world where Brexit has actually happened rather than a world where various parties are trying to make it happen or stop it happening.
I'm voting Brexit, and the main reason is that I believe that unless we vote Brexit, we have no chance whatsoever of controlling immigration and therefore getting the population problem under control within the UK. Maybe we won't be able to stop it even if we vote Brexit, but I believe we stand a better chance.
And I believe that population is the Number One problem facing the human race, on both national and global levels.
PS_RalphW wrote:The campaigning on both sides is entirely negative and deeply alarmist, verging on outright lies.
Indeed, it's very disappointing how all hope an interesting debate has been hijacked with all this rubbish.
PS_RalphW wrote:It is the rich falling out over the spoils...
That's something I hadn't thought of before but seems a good description.
Amber Rudd turned up at my office today and gave a set piece speech about economy, jobs, US vs EU vs China has three global powers... I doubt she changed anyone's mind.
I have it on good authority that AR is a total idiot and knows nothing of the world she is playing a part in governing. Maybe history will show this information is wrong, then again ...............
To become an extremist, hang around with people you agree with. Cass Sunstein
Nobody knows what will happen because nobody knows what action will be taken by the major players if we get a Brexit vote.
If the major players say "Right, we've got a job to do to sort this out so let's get on with it and sort out reasonable terms" then all will be hunky dory and we'll carry on as if nothing has happened.
If the major players say "You've f*****d up our little project so we'll f**k you up as well" there will be economic chaos for all concerned and anything could happen.
Then there is a whole range of possibilities between! Because no one know what is going to happen we get all this conjecture and the Armageddon theories instead. Who knows which way the Kleptocrasy running things will push the decisions. It'll go whichever way the Kleptocrasy sees their advantage to lie.
