What can we do to change the minds of decision makers and people in general to actually do something about preparing for the forthcoming economic/energy crises (the ones after this one!)?
woodburner wrote:
At least while you are writing this you are not breeding and adding to the population increase/decrease or what ever you want to call it.
Are you a real poster or a spambot?
woodburner,,,,,,,,,,,where was the need for you to quote my entire long post when all you are capable of writing is two stupid lines.
Do you understand written text?
you keep renting about breeding, breeding and more breeding.......my previous comment explained that environment has not been destroyed by population..........The combined population of millions of other species was much greater than current human population........Yet they did not destroy environment for millions of years.........Is it too hard for you to understand this ???
I keep "renting" about breeding, do I? Well I mentioned it once to you, and the correct spelling is "ranting". You are familiar with the concept if not the spelling since you keep "ranting" about industrialisation, regardless that this is not the fundamenal root of the problem. The problem started with agriculture, in mesopotamia, where they grew grass grains (wheat) and as another example Indonesia, where they migrated to Madasgar and promptly burnt the forests so they could grow arable crops, thus making the elephant bird and giant lemur extinct. Industry could be argued to play a part in this as they made boats.
As I have pointed out to you previously, if it was not for industry, we would not be able to read the verbal effluent you produce continually, we get the point, Why not expand your horizons and explore some other subject?
To become an extremist, hang around with people you agree with. Cass Sunstein
sushil_yadav wrote:.....
Out of millions of species on earth, human species is the only lunatic one whose food comes from money........Industrial society has created a lunatic system where food comes from money........This has led to a lunatic situation where the farmer who is producing food is starving to death because he doesn't have money to buy food whereas the parasitic urban population which is not even producing food has grown obese from overeating because it has got tonnes of money to buy food.
I see you are still talking rubbish. Generally people with tons of money eat good food and do not get obese. It is the people who have been misled about what is "healthy" food, and/or do not have much money that eat a poor diet and get obese. Additionally they do not become obese from overeating, they overeat because they are obese, but I doubt you will be able to follow the subtle logic.
Your subtle logic is no logic at all........The cause of all problems is industrialization.........All problems of industrial society have either been created by industrialization or worsened by industrialization.........Obesity is no exception.
In pre-industrial society people could eat only when food was cooked at home..........In industrial society people are eating all the time because millions of tonnes of ready-made / packaged food is available in shops, restaurants and homes 24 x 7 , 365 days of the year.
Perhaps you would like to tell the people in India that they are all eating ready meals 365 days a year, 24 hours a day, especially the ones who find difficulty finding enough food at all. As for cooked at home, many people ate raw food, and until very recently still did. They also ate the right food. The problem with the modern diet is refined carbohydrates, which have little nutrition. I accept these are industrial products which have damaged most people alive today.
The second cause of obesity is the switch-over from physical work to mental work / desk jobs which happened after industrialization .........Billions of people have switched over to mental work / desk jobs after industrialization........Physical work requires more calories.........Mental work requires fewer calories but instead of eating less food people started eating more because of the easy availability of packaged / processed food and drinks.
Who is ranting now? You need to stop writing and do some reading about why people consume more than they need in terms of calories. They are certainly not consuming as much as they need in terms of nutrients.
This is what has led to the epidemic of obesity in industrial society.........Half of the industrial population has grown obese from overeating and because of the switch over to desk jobs.
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What is "overeating"? First you need to gain some understanding of the subject, to do this you will have to read. Would you like me to suggest some books?
To become an extremist, hang around with people you agree with. Cass Sunstein
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so you found a spelling mistake........great job......as if you never made a spelling mistake in your life........joker of the world.
I explained the reasons for obesity and this person starts talking about starvation in India.
Why did your ancestors come to poor, starving India.........Did indians invite them to colonize the country?.........Did the white man come to India to loot India's poverty???
The colonizers sucked the blood out of India for 200 years - looting, plundering and exploiting the natives and natural resources of India for two centuries.
Last edited by sushil_yadav on 03 May 2016, 09:56, edited 3 times in total.
sushil_yadav wrote:.
so you found a spelling mistake........great job......as if you never made a spelling mistake in your life........joker of the world.
I think the full stop button is stuck on your keyboard.
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It is industrial society that has destroyed the planet in just hundred years and some people like woodburner keep demonizing agrarian society for no reason at all.
Agrarian society did not destroy the planet for 10,000 years..........Man could have stayed in agrarian stage forever without destroying the planet.
Destruction of the planet happens when all three ecosystems are destroyed - Forests, Oceans and Atmosphere.........Industrial society has destroyed all three in just hundred years.
Agrarian society did not destroy the oceans........Oceans were almost 100% safe in agrarian stage.........Agrarian society did not destroy the atmosphere with millions of tonnes of industrial gases and automobile exhaust.........Agrarian society destroyed only a fraction of the forests destroyed by industrial society.
Agrarian society destroyed forests only for agriculture.
Industrial society has destroyed forests for agriculture PLUS industry.
Industrial society has destroyed billions of acres of extra forests with mining industry, logging industry, construction industry, manufacturing industry, electricity industry, oil industry, millions of kilometers of road and rail networks, thousands of ports and airports.
It is industrial society that has destroyed forests, rivers, oceans and atmosphere........It is industrial society that has decimated millions of land and marine species.
Comparing pre-industrial environmental destruction with industrial environmental destruction is like comparing the Lamp with the Sun.
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Ok Mr Sushil, you demonise the industrial society, maybe you are right, so what do you propose to do about it? Remember you are currently using industrial products to communicate.
While you are supporting agrarian society, remebmer that society was a precursor to the industrial society.
Does your keyboard banging give you headaches?
PS what do you know of my ancestors, please tell me, I have never found out.
To become an extremist, hang around with people you agree with. Cass Sunstein
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Anyone who is born in industrial society becomes a part of the destructive system.
Computers are being used in industrial society because they are being manufactured by industrial society..........No one was using computer in pre-industrial society when it was not being manufactured.
The issue is environmental destruction, not what I like or dislike.
Environmental destruction will not stop if I stop using the computer.
Millions of industries and corporations are destroying the planet moment by moment..........All these industries will not stop destroying environment if I stop using consumer goods.
Billions of people are not using the computer today.........Even this has not saved environment because billions of other people are using the computer and thousands of other consumer goods and services whose production has destroyed environment.
Individual lifestyle changes DO NOT save environment.
It is what the society does COLLECTIVELY that matters.
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sushil_yadav wrote:.
Anyone who is born in industrial society becomes a part of the destructive system.
Computers are being used in industrial society because they are being manufactured by industrial society..........No one was using computer in pre-industrial society when it was not being manufactured.
The issue is environmental destruction, not what I like or dislike.
Environmental destruction will not stop if I stop using the computer.
Millions of industries and corporations are destroying the planet moment by moment..........All these industries will not stop destroying environment if I stop using consumer goods.
Billions of people are not using the computer today.........Even this has not saved environment because billions of other people are using the computer and thousands of other consumer goods and services whose production has destroyed environment.
Individual lifestyle changes DO NOT save environment.
It is what the society does COLLECTIVELY that matters.
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Is this what happens when you give an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters?
Sushil, you cannot say that agrarian society does not affect the environment. The expansion of agrarian people in India into National Parks looking for land is destroying the environment. The same is happening in Africa and it is driven by increasing population.
Animal populations tend to live in harmony with their environment because animals have to get more energy from their food than they put into getting it. Their numbers are affected by small signals from the environment and these signals affect levels of fertility and the survival rates of thier young. In a year of bad weather, for instance, the survival rates of young animals and birds will plummet. This will affect their numbers for a number of years into the future. As all animals are part of a food chain the number of animals in one part of the chain will affect other animals both above and below them.
Humans, on the other hand, can put more energy into getting food than they get out of it and still live because we can use fossil fuels to help us in our food production. This includes the transportation of large amounts of food from one place to another which has enabled us to live in places where we otherwise might not have lived. This means that we are putting pressure on animals in precarious environments. The human population has expanded into all sorts of environments as we look for more space in which to squeeze our expanding population.
If you look through history you will find hundreds of agrarian civilisations which have all failed because they outgrew their local resources. The civilisation became so large that they couldn't transport in enough food and fuel to keep that society going, let alone growing. It was their population growth which killed all those civilisations.
The difference between our present industrial civilisation and the old agrarian ones is the ability to transport vast amounts of food and fuel around the world to keep the civilisation going in any place no matter how unsuitable. It is population expansion which is filling the planet up helped by industrial transport. We can live with an industrial sector, albeit in a different form to the one we have today, but we can't live with the increasing population.
That increasing population requires more land to be taken from the natural world for farming (see pressure on National Parks above) to produce food. It is affecting rain forests as people cut trees to build shelters. It is displacing animals from their habitats. Humans can adapt to habitat change whereas animals can't.
We can modify our industry to be less resource intensive but we can't modify an increasing population to be less food intensive. Population is the major problem.
Can we assume from your last post Sushil, that because changing individual lifestyles will not save the environment, that you are going to do nothing about your lifestyle?
To become an extremist, hang around with people you agree with. Cass Sunstein
Power outage. Sushil has shut down. Please shut down this thread or at least move this to the 'Off Topic' section. It's not doing any good to Powerswitch.
We get your drift sushil, you go on about it until it becomes an irritation. You have told us what the problem is, what are YOU doing about it? Apart from saying it again and again and again and aga............
To become an extremist, hang around with people you agree with. Cass Sunstein
