Planned Somerset nuclear plant on hold ? or not ?

fuzzy · Post by **fuzzy** » 30 Mar 2016, 17:29

Well why not? I'm sure they will find the UK consumer some savings by redesigning it.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 30 Mar 2016, 19:52

Christian Taxil, is the managers’ union board member who says he will vote against, but the engineers' view may be the interesting one as reported in the FT:

Senior engineers at French utility EDF have called for at least a two year delay at the controversial Hinkley Point nuclear project in the UK and recommended a redesign of the reactor technology.
An internal white paper written by dissenting EDF engineers, which has been seen by the Financial Times, argues that Hinkley Point is so complex and untested that the company should announce a later completion date than the target of 2025.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2ef61abe-f5b1 ... z44PgXO7JX

If there is a technical engineering problem, rather than a financial or political one, it just might provide the face-saving get out for the UK government to abandon the project without losing too much face - they can blame French engineers and unforeseeable issues.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » 12 Apr 2016, 16:03

biffvernon wrote:Christian Taxil, is the managers’ union board member who says he will vote against, but the engineers' view may be the interesting one as reported in the FT:

Senior engineers at French utility EDF have called for at least a two year delay at the controversial Hinkley Point nuclear project in the UK and recommended a redesign of the reactor technology.
An internal white paper written by dissenting EDF engineers, which has been seen by the Financial Times, argues that Hinkley Point is so complex and untested that the company should announce a later completion date than the target of 2025.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2ef61abe-f5b1 ... z44PgXO7JX

If there is a technical engineering problem, rather than a financial or political one, it just might provide the face-saving get out for the UK government to abandon the project without losing too much face - they can blame French engineers and unforeseeable issues.

A sensible way forward would seems to be to scrap this asap and start again....
Appreciate there will be cost implications, but maybe HMG could claim some back from EDF ?

We could then start again with a more sensible (ideally UK based) approach...
For example, why not support the development of Stable Salt Reactors (see other thread) ?
Apparently Moltex are now concentrating their efforts in other countries, such as South Korea, as the UK is not supportive....

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 23 Apr 2016, 16:43

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016 ... til-summer

more delays.

Post by **adam2** » 23 Apr 2016, 18:40

This delay could push any decision to after the EU referendum, which I suspect may be intentional.
Although our continuing membership or not of the EU should not directly affect the proposed power station project, it might provide a "face saving" excuse to cancel it or postpone for so long that it is effectively a cancellation.

An "out" vote could be interpreted as a good reason to cancel it.

A narrow victory for the "remain in" side, could be called uncertainty as to our future in Europe and therefore a good excuse to postpone it.

IMHO, this is another nail in the coffin, but it would be premature to call the project dead just yet.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 23 Apr 2016, 19:28

adam2 wrote: IMHO, this is another nail in the coffin, but it would be premature to call the project dead just yet.

It's never been alive.
Last Tuesday:

The UK’s energy secretary has admitted for the first time that the lights would stay on if new nuclear reactors at Hinkley were cancelled or delayed.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... is-delayed

Post by **adam2** » 23 Apr 2016, 20:43

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... is-delayed

I differ ! I would say that the lights may well go out REGARDLESS as to the building of Hinkley C or not.

Whilst we might muddle through as in the past, it seems to me that the lights could go out (on a short term rota basis and then only at peak load times) in the next few years.
The new nuke IF it goes ahead wont produce anything for at least 10 years, and looking at delays elsewhere, 15 or even 20 years might be more realistic.
The capacity crunch is here and now, not 10, 15, or 20 years into the future.

Post by **clv101** » 23 Apr 2016, 22:11

adam2 wrote:The new nuke IF it goes ahead wont produce anything for at least 10 years, and looking at delays elsewhere, 15 or even 20 years might be more realistic.
The capacity crunch is here and now, not 10, 15, or 20 years into the future.

This is a key point - Hinkley C won't be generating anything for at least a decade and during that time it will be taking investment and resource that could otherwise be spent on other projects both reducing demand and increasing supply in shorter timescales.

Green-lighting Hinkley C makes blackouts within the next decade more likely than if it's cancelled.

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 23 Apr 2016, 22:19

Great! Hopefully that would mean the possibility of a lot less light pollution at night, though in reality I suspect the wimps who are scared of the dark will be allowed to have the lights on and something more useful will get cut, like forum postings.

It could be used as a way of disguising the gas shortage, since turning the electric off will effectively turn of the gas supply because most gas appliances have electrical safety interlocks nowadays. People with generators could circumvent this. I must get my genny fixed, hmmmm........., we don't have a gas main connection.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 23 Apr 2016, 22:50

adam2 wrote: I differ !

I think we can all safely differ from Amber Rudd!

The interesting thing about the article is that it suggests the government is beginning to build an escape route from its inevitable policy U-turn.

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 25 Apr 2016, 14:38

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36126197

"Summer" has become "September"

alex · Post by **alex** » 25 Apr 2016, 21:27

Just remember folks..... The French came third in the war! Not only that, they also build Peugeot cars.

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 25 Apr 2016, 23:36

I have a Peugeot 405 - 1966 and a van - 1968. Not much rust on either, and still used every day. Not many makes (particularly vans) you can say that of.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 26 Apr 2016, 02:10

The Peugeot 504 pick up was legendary as was the estate of which we had both for quite a while. Citroens were legendary for another reason. The Peugeot diesel engine was also brilliant and Ford used it for their early diesel cars. You can pick holes in the design of a lot of French stuff though including the 504!

And, it seems, the same can be said for their nuclear reactors! Even their own engineers agree on that!

Post by **adam2** » 27 Apr 2016, 09:22

PS_RalphW wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36126197

"Summer" has become "September"

According to yesterday evenings TV news, "September" has now become "about September".

Strictly speaking, "about September" could include any date shortly BEFORE September, however back in the real world it seems a safe prediction that "after September" is what is meant. And probably long enough after that "about" will be of doubtful accuracy.

I predict an announcement shortly before end of the year, and I also predict that the announcement will not be definite yes or no, but will call for more studies, reviews, and consultations.